FUCK THIS BULLSHIT

[JasonPastman]

At least shielders always have their nemesis: Axes. So if ranged population gets too big you take axes. But the answer to ranged is to have more ranged so we have these problems.

HA/HX are a joke too. If we have fewer ranged we need to look at their capabilities too because HA/HX counters are plagued by similar issues

The problem I see here though is that shield breaking weapons are 2 slow against 1h spam especially the stab.  In addition, because these weapons tend to be slow and not practical for anything else besides bashing in shields, they are generally not that fun to use, and as such most players tend to use weapons that don't have these bonuses. 

[Kafein]

The problem I see here though is that shield breaking weapons are 2 slow against 1h spam especially the stab.  In addition, because these weapons tend to be slow and not practical for anything else besides bashing in shields, they are generally not that fun to use, and as such most players tend to use weapons that don't have these bonuses.

Poleaxes ?

[JasonPastman]

Poleaxes ?

Yea true, although again most pole guys don't use them, maybe because of the 1k+ upkeep or the fact you cant use a shield with them, I don't know.  In either case the ratio of effective shield breaking weapon bearers to shielders is not enough to pose any real counter. 

[Kafein]

Yea true, although again most pole guys don't use them, maybe because of the 1k+ upkeep or the fact you cant use a shield with them, I don't know.  In either case the ratio of effective shield breaking weapon bearers to shielders is not enough to pose any real counter.

Thing is, it actually works. You get an axe and practice your blockstunning, you are going to have a much easier time killing shielders. Unlike shields being used to counter range.

[JasonPastman]

Thing is, it actually works. You get an axe and practice your block stunning, you are going to have a much easier time killing shielders. Unlike shields being used to counter range.

See the thing about that is that the guys 1h stabbing with those spammy weapons can hit you before you can get your block up even if I initiate it as soon as i see their animation -especially if they have a really good ping,- and I am speaking from experience using a +3 HBS with 178 wpf (198 before the wpf respec).

While I haven't mastered the block stun I have mastered countering it and do not think it as nearly as effective as you think.  After all, if it was, wouldn't everyone be doing it?

[PsychoTwins]

See the thing about that is that the guys 1h stabbing with those spammy weapons can hit you before you can get your block up

I believe the latest patch with the stab time reduced was meant to counter that.

[JasonPastman]

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I believe the latest patch with the stab time reduced was meant to counter that.

Well the stab time was actually increased, the first phase by 30ms.  But yea, I still don't think it's fixed. The second phase animations is simply too fast, and this new change is totally irrelevant if the 1hander holds.
 

[Nightmare798]

I bring a shield, then i have protection. And then i say 'get a shield' to people so that they rage and refuse to bring one, that way the archers have more shieldless fools to shoot at and ignore me.

'Shields do nothing vs ranged, dont bother' best propaganda invented by archers 2013 xD

Funny thing is that when archers have choice between me (a shielder) and people with 2h and polearms, they, for unknown reason, rather chose to shoot my shield.

[Jona]

More and more everyday I realise how ridiculous agiwhores' movement speed looks. It's so absurd for me that someone can sprint while holding a big weapon horizontally for a while, for example.

I used to use balanced build with at least 7 athletics, and I realised that I used backpedalling and footwork too much instead of blocking, and such high athletics make people look like Flash when fighting. Now my build has a lot more strength and, with 5 athletics, my character's movement seems more realistic and I have to block a lot more instead of just dodge.

That's what I think of agi builds: they don't look realistic, and they encourage lame gameplay.

Oh! And the wpf patch wasn't really necessary (except for hybrids) in my opinion. Swing speed shouldn't be SO different from one build to another.

I forgot where I read it, but the average game's movement speed for a human player is 40mph (~64 km/hr for u EU scrubs). This was made popular especially in FPS games like quake, doom, cod, etc etc. However even looking at warband, a player with 0 athletics while INCREDIBLY SLOW (to a point where the game is downright boring) is still moving wickedly fast. If you look around at the scenery, and try and imagine the actual size of a lot of the objects, and then realize that you are whizzing past them... well, you get the idea. A human walking at actual walking speed would be almost standing still in this game. Sure, you could argue that the avatars are in a jogging animation all the time, but they are still super fast. Not nearly as bad as in FPS games, perhaps, but still impossibly fast, especially considering the armor they adorn.

Lastly, I previously said that a player with no athletics could still be considered fast. Well, this game tries to keep the average at 5 or 6. When you've got 5 or 6 athletics, and very light armor (lets say, a shirt, leather gloves, simple leather boots, and no helmet) you can literally fly in this game. The shirt, leather gloves and boots would probably be about equal to our day-to-day clothes nowadays. Now tell me, can you run 40 MPH in your clothes, even at a sprint? Now just remember, these characters are doing nothing more than jogging...

(click to show/hide)

TL;DR All videogames are insanely unrealistic when it comes to a human player's speed. Players that look like the flash in crpg are still probably slower than players in cod or quake. It is just a feature that shows no signs of dying off since games would be shit boring to play without it.

[San]

^lol?

A decent estimation here: http://forum.melee.org/general-discussion/athletics-and-character-speed-comparison/

8athletics and light armour, 4.36 m/s ~= 9.75 mph, a somewhat brisk jog.

[Kafein]

See the thing about that is that the guys 1h stabbing with those spammy weapons can hit you before you can get your block up even if I initiate it as soon as i see their animation -especially if they have a really good ping,- and I am speaking from experience using a +3 HBS with 178 wpf (198 before the wpf respec).

While I haven't mastered the block stun I have mastered countering it and do not think it as nearly as effective as you think.  After all, if it was, wouldn't everyone be doing it?

Well either you are describing yourself getting hit by thrusts that were started after your swing, which happens with all weapon types, either you mean 1h thrusts are spammable which is simply not true. They are like all stabs very fast to connect, and since the latest patch slightly less so, but even great maul side swings if timed and turned correctly will hit before you can get a second hit in with a stabby 1h.

Repeatedly holding against light weapon users to get block stuns increases the pressure you put on them tremendously. I'm not saying it's an autowin, but forcing the enemy to block twice is a considerable advantage.

[Jona]

^lol?

A decent estimation here: http://forum.melee.org/general-discussion/athletics-and-character-speed-comparison/

8athletics and light armour, 4.36 m/s ~= 9.75 mph, a somewhat brisk jog.

Idk man, I know I for one always leave my meterstick at home when go for a jog in crpg, not sure how these lads brought theirs along.

[JasonPastman]

either you mean 1h thrusts are spammable which is simply not true.

I would have to disagree with this.

Well either you are describing yourself getting hit by thrusts that were started after your swing

Nope, and not just thrusts, swings to, although that does happen as well. 

They are like all stabs very fast to connect, and since the latest patch slightly less so

Again, I'm going to have to disagree with you, as only with 1handers do i experience this kind of unblock able speed.

but even great maul side swings if timed and turned correctly will hit before you can get a second hit in with a stabby 1h.

Repeatedly holding against light weapon users to get block stuns increases the pressure you put on them tremendously. I'm not saying it's an autowin, but forcing the enemy to block twice is a considerable advantage.

I do however, agree with the rest of what you said.  To sum it up, and based on some of the other stuff you have wrote that I have read, we are in clear disagreement over the matter of whether or not 1h is far more op then the rest of the melee classes, as I believe that it is and you clearly do not.

However,  I think the greatest concern that needs to be addressed is the lack of a proper counter to HAs and ranged which was the original point I was trying to make (shielders being secondary as there does exist a counter as described a few posts up.)

[Nightmare798]

Also, this is the only medieval game where you don't need strength for damage.

Even a weakling can do tremendous damage with weapons like flail, rapier or estoc.

You can block this visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 with this visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 or you can knockdown someone in heavy armor with Wooden Stick  , only in cRPG

As far as I know, plate armor does not make you imprevious to heavy blunt impacts. Plate armor was designed to provide immunity to slashes and good defence against stabs (and no, plate armor is not stab-proof, at least not all of it), but a good hit from blunt weapon (be it a wooden mallet, big stick, baseball bat) can still knock you down easily.

This game don't have stamina system, which is is the core mechanics of any melee game.
With stamina: You cant block forever, you cant hold shield forever, you cant run forever, you cant hold bow string forever, you cant charge with horse forever ....

I would think that blocking constant attacks from a madman hacking away at your shield with sword would be less tiring for you than him.

[CrazyCracka420]

Yeah a 1h blunt weapon would likely not knock you down (not from the force of impact anyways, maybe because you got fucked up).  It could likely cause damage to you, but it wouldn't likely knock you down.  1h knockdown could very easily be removed, the only issue is that it would basically make blunt/pierce redundant weapon damage types for 1h.  1h blunt vs pierce damages on weapons would have to be rebalanced.