Swords *(Now with polls!)*

[SMEGMAR]

Wait, you're serious, aren't you?! 

*Meow* :3

[Ronin]

I don't understand why you react in such an extreme way

Of course the damage would have to be toned down a bit (making them to have the same damage of cut swords with this bonus). But at the moment, axes have secondary modes which allow them to be switched between cut and pierce. It is quite good at the moment, I merely suggested some kind of other way.

Axes being strong and unbalanced weapons, could make them more interesting actually. Cutting damage isn't all that great, most of the time the alternative mode is better. Or better, just get a pick to get the job done at the first place. Shieldbreaking is mostly useful if you're teamworking with an archer/crossbowman. If I want cut damage, I'd prefer swords because they are longer, faster and have a strong multipurpose thrust attack. Long Swords are also better with STR builds, as 1h axes tend to be short. For a 21/15 shielder build, I'd better grab a nordic champion sword.


I wasn't serious much, it looks like a bit too much work for a little gain from my perspective. Otherwise I would have created a thread in suggestions forum already.

[Macbeth3]

I don't understand why you react in such an extreme way

Is this directed to me or Smegmar?

Anyway. I'd really love axes and maces to be used more compared to swords. Sadly, there is no reason for me, personsally to use one with the build I'm using since my build depends on a 0-slot weapon to be used. Whoever relies on these type of weapons that has some damage, HAS to use a sword. Most of the type it's Xbow hybrids, Hopelites and even archers that have to use those.

On EU1, A decent chunck of dedicated shielders and pole-users, do use a form of axe as their primary attack.

*Meow* :3

[SMEGMAR]

Axes, spears, and maces should feel like there's more "oomph" to them, they should get something to appropriately match the killing power of swords.
Knockdown and bonus vs shield just don't cut it.

[Macbeth3]

Just wondering. You're talking mainly about 1-handers, right?!

If I may ask, how do you think about axes and Blunt weapons in the 2h and Pole-department, compared to 2h swords (and spears?)

We could never give maces and axes the same raw power as their 2h counterparts. Otherwise they're would not be any reason to go for 2h/pole other then reach.

I understand what you say, Smegmar. But the problem about this issue is simple. The solution, is not.
HOW could we achieve 1 handed axes and maces, beeing more favored by people, without it Devaluing swords or making Axes and maces to strong? At it's current state, most people will favor the sword.

The current reason someone takes a mace are: knockdown, and very high armor penetration, and rarely glances.
The current reason someone takes an axe: Breaks shield and high base damage compared to swords.
The current reason someone takes a sword: They are all-arounders that perform good in every situation.

You can ofcourse correct me if I'm wrong with these statements. I don't pretend to know it all. In fact, I'm Probably stating pretty standard and obvious things. But right now, I just see no way to make people use more axes and maces (1h)

[Dionysus]

Axes, spears, and maces should feel like there's more "oomph" to them

I think axes and spears already have enough "oomph" to them, but the maces are very underpowered. Buff the stats of the maces, but leave swords alone. They are supposed to be more effective at killing, and that's why they don't need a bonus against shields or knockdown.

Axes...
Knockdown and bonus vs shield just don't cut it.

Heh heh heh...

[Armycook_of_KSantiago]

vote the last one because that's the only thing I understood

[Macbeth3]

I'm actually glad there is some form of conversation/debate regarding this topic, with people explaining their point of view rather then just random "Buff this, nerf that".

Conversation. Once that's gone, what do we have left in life?!

*Meow*

Also, Cya tomorrow. I'm off to bed :3

[Shaksie]

To my shame I agree with quite a bit of the stuff that's been said.
This post is probably directed more at M:BG because I doubt these recommendations could be acommodated
I think 1h stabs are pretty grossly overpowered, this could be fixed if they had a longer wind up time and less reach. This would prevent people walking around holding their stabs and outranging 2h swords, but it would also stop being from spam stabbing in fights.

Also, I think the idea of giving different penetration values for different items is a very good idea. From my little experience I'd say that axes should be faster, unbalanced but have some armor penetration rating and give a fair amount of stun when hits are landed and long ones would be heavy and unwieldly.

Similarly I think maces wouldn't be this slow but they would be unwieldy (unbalanced could show this) and short. Also I don't see why they hurt so much, yes bashing someone's armor in would be more effective than trying to chop it but I think the idea of temporary damage (listed in some thread somewhere) would be good. Knockdown is reasonably spastic and I think it's a terrible idea.

[Ronin]

Well, I think only 2 class really can think of using 1h axes:

1-Shielders: Most of the time, maces or picks are better than their short cutting counterparts. If a shielder is getting str mostly, swords seem better. If more agi, picks seem better. If balanced, I'd say maces are better.
2-Swashbucklers: Well, I think swashbucklers are good to go with anything depending on their stat distribution. Still, the same dilemma. Maybe balanced builds can make use of axes with some good STR values, as you said it scales well. However, STR also gives more knockdown chances for maces so I'd simply pick them. By the way, I really like thrust oriented swords as a swashbuckler though. I think the class excels mostly with those weapons.

Sidenote: Don't forget that pierce damage glances less at low damage ratings, compared to blunt damage. That's why picks are I think better for AGI builds.

 Axes don't give that good damage compared to the reach loss. Also don't forget that people who wear light armor are faster, so it is almost always better to fight with a sword against them. Against heavy or medium armored, picks or maces are better anyway. Axes are maybe only good when used to assist teammates. Removing someone shieldless is not important in 1v1, but it can be useful in 5v5. People invest skill points to use a shield, and you simply negate that with a few blows. Shields can block more than 1 directions at the same time, but a weapon can't. Same goes for an arrow.

I don't really think axes are good for cavalry. They are a bit too short I think.

I think axes are fine balancewise. The fact that they can be switched, make them good all arounders too. What I propose don't have that much with the game-balance actually. It is more about game-design. Some low armor penetration rating (a little damage reducement will be needed of course) would make them maybe best suited against medium armor. For light armor, swords would be better, because of good speed and reach. For heavy armor, picks or maces would be better, because of higher armor penetration.

[Grumbs]

The problem is that 1 hand swords are OP. The stab and speed is just too good when you have them with a shield

Knockdown with 1 handers has always been ridiculous. They have good damage and a random chance to cause a knockdown, kick, kill chain which doesn't add anything to the game but free kills based on luck

The axes are OK. They have good damage but no stab, which is fine.

[Nightmare798]

Where is a "Fuck your opinion,, option smegmar?

The problem is that 1 hand swords are OP. The stab and speed is just too good when you have them with a shield

Knockdown with 1 handers has always been ridiculous. They have good damage and a random chance to cause a knockdown, kick, kill chain which doesn't add anything to the game but free kills based on luck

The axes are OK. They have good damage but no stab, which is fine.

Just wondering, what weapon type do you use?

[Canuck]

vote the last one because that's the only thing I understood

I didn't even understand it but that last one there's the only one to make any sense. Options one through five are just gibberish.

[Grumbs]

Where is a "Fuck your opinion,, option smegmar?
Just wondering, what weapon type do you use?

Pretty much everything now. Depends what I feel like (have 138, 138, 139 wpf and 5 shield skill)

I think the role of 1 hand with shield has shifted too much. Their range was increased so some poles get outranged, and anything without a stab got hit pretty hard with that 1 hand stab buff that we didn't really need. 1 hand with shield should be short range but fast attacks, not decent range, decent damage, good stab while having protection from ranged that others don't have.

They also buffed all the ranged classes, especially when you look at how good 0 slot 1 handers are

[Tojo]

Thread TLDR, but I use a 1h sword and the stab is the only thing i have going fot me when i have to fight polearms and two handers that can swing faster than me.

Also if you dont like swords here is a great idea

(click to show/hide)

do not use one

.