Time to end the range whine.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Destroying something that makes me pay in the end of the round almost 2k total....                   Nope.


There will always be ranged players. Always.  And like op says (sigh..) compared to what we had in the past (plated railgun bows/xbows, infinikite, flamberge archers, 1 hit wonders, etc) this is quite a great place we're at.

Adapt, use the surroundings, evolve. Look at players like chase, saxon, etc, they keep adapting and have a perfect sense of placement. It's the best tool when playing battle.

This could just be due to the time I play, but does Chase even play anymore? Don't think I've seen him in months.

[Miwiw]

Saw him this month. He and Saxon ended up in duels for some rounds. 

[TR_Ragnarok]

They could make it so that you can throw your equipment in a fit of rage.. *kited by Range* *Throws Flamberge*

[Kafein]

simple counter to ranged, shield and light armour

however ... entire cRPG community -

** ME DUN KNO HOW PLAY WITH LESS THUN 60 BUDY ARMUR! ARCHURS R TOO FAST! NERF THEM OMG! **

You know what the fun thing is ? When as a light shielder you inevitably get oneshot by an archer, people argue that you should have more armor.



I have during the last few days tried to play 100% ranged counter on EU2. I grabbed a shield and avoided melee combat completely. My observations are that if the enemy melee cooperate a little bit (i.e. don't chase me across the map because they are idiots), I can kill ranged as long as they remain mostly alone. As soon as there are multiple ranged far enough from each other so that it is not feasible to engage both in melee simultaneously, they become impossible to kill. That's with a shield. I don't remember archers having any problem with multiple 2h heroes.


I also during that time had the joy of observing (once again, as I used shields in the past but gave up on them to preserve my sanity) that shields can randomly fail to block arrows on the sides, even when the shield model was on the trajectory of the arrow. I'd estimate the zone in wich I can block arrows with a knightly heather shield to be about 25 degrees wide. Also, shooting the feet works from any horizontal angle, and shooting the head works if you are above me. In the context of siege, archers basically lack a limit of effective range. That is, you can accurately shoot from one end of the largest castle to the other with no big trouble. This is of course entirely irrelevant to xbows.

As a naked 1h, fighting with archers and xbowers using 1h sidearms basically comes down to skill. I move faster than they do, but I need to block all their attacks and I have to hit them three times to kill them when they usually only need one. At the kind of range I get to just before engaging, their ranged weapons always oneshot me. If I personally decided to respec as xbow, it would have almost no impact on my melee capability. I'm already frequently winning 1v3 in melee naked with a side sword, so I can only imagine what better players than me can do with their skills applied to a ranged hybrid. I should test it with STF, but I'm pretty sure I would have no problem defending myself with a 1h sidearm, 6PS and 1wpf in 1h.

[Corsair831]

i'm sorry but all this crying about ranged, you guys are just bad

for reals, go play native (IG_Battlegrounds) for like 20 hours or so

you'll come back with a new attitude to ranged

[Kafein]

i'm sorry but all this crying about ranged, you guys are just bad

for reals, go play native (IG_Battlegrounds) for like 20 hours or so

you'll come back with a new attitude to ranged

"I don't want to listen, therefore I shall argue you are all bad"

Why are you even posting then?

[Sniger]

range AMOUNT is ridiculous. classes is not equally divided. it sucks hard.

[Corsair831]

"I don't want to listen, therefore I shall argue you are all bad"

Why are you even posting then?

it's just like, after playing native, where archers are accepted as "ok they're fine", then you come to crpg where they're just weak as toffee, and the one which has more rage against archers is the one where they're a lot weaker

it just boggles the mind

[Rumblood]

Main problem with EU archers is abuse. For example, I like to hold my bow ready but whenever I want to jump on some roof, I find out I can't do that (need to release bow first, which is something I often forgot to do). All because archers in the past abused jump-shoot mechanic.

Next is arrow weight issue. As an archer I always pull out melee weapon, because that's something I'm used to. Even tho I have piss poor footwork and zero PS. I need that speed to successfully fight with melee weapon, not to run away from danger kiting. But no, I can't do that because assholes abused that for years.

Archery is in pretty sad shape atm. It's optimized for shooting and nothing else really. In a way, archers are forced to go full wpf in archery because everything else doesn't make much sense. Having 100 or more wpf in 1H is useless when I weight more than a bloody tincan, while having only a portion of its survivability.

Of course, to fix things Paul suggested another dumb mechanics implementation. Not saying I'm surprised.

Perfectly plusable post, then you go and insult Paul again. Get the fuck over yourself man. Are you doing anything for the mod? Stick to the mechanics and shut the fuck up with the insults to one of the few people who are still working to improve the mod, even if you disagree with the changes made. 

[Paul]

He is ill. Just try to ignore it for now and hope that he decides to get professional help at some point.

[Moncho]

Main problem with EU archers is abuse. For example, I like to hold my bow ready but whenever I want to jump on some roof, I find out I can't do that (need to release bow first, which is something I often forgot to do). All because archers in the past abused jump-shoot mechanic.

Next is arrow weight issue. As an archer I always pull out melee weapon, because that's something I'm used to. Even tho I have piss poor footwork and zero PS. I need that speed to successfully fight with melee weapon, not to run away from danger kiting. But no, I can't do that because assholes abused that for years.

Archery is in pretty sad shape atm. It's optimized for shooting and nothing else really. In a way, archers are forced to go full wpf in archery because everything else doesn't make much sense. Having 100 or more wpf in 1H is useless when I weight more than a bloody tincan, while having only a portion of its survivability.

Of course, to fix things Paul suggested another dumb mechanics implementation. Not saying I'm surprised.

Good post (except for the last line personal attack, which crossed out as I do not agree with it), this is exactly what killed my archer/shielder main. I enjoyed it, I was not as fast or as accurate as a pure build, but it was fun. Then at some point I had to endure 10kg from arrows, 4 from bow, 7.5 from shield, armour, etc and it was just unplayable like that in melee, I was forced to drop my bow and ended up not using it at all, and from there to completely dropping it was a no brainer...

[Leshma]

Perfectly plusable post, then you go and insult Paul again. Get the fuck over yourself man. Are you doing anything for the mod? Stick to the mechanics and shut the fuck up with the insults to one of the few people who are still working to improve the mod, even if you disagree with the changes made. 

I don't want improvements. I'm perfectly satisfied with current cRPG mechanics. To be honest, I'm playing cRPG just to be in touch with this community before Melee alpha comes out. Paul's work on cRPG means nothing to me.

Since chadz announced Melee being in development, this mod just serves one purpose. To keep these people busy until better version comes out.

Edit: Another thing. For few months I play as scavenger or in other words, I pick up gear from the ground. Paul's implementation would destroy that, no wonder I'm against it lol

[kinngrimm]

it's just like, after playing native, where archers are accepted as "ok they're fine", then you come to crpg where they're just weak as toffee, and the one which has more rage against archers is the one where they're a lot weaker

it just boggles the mind

what also is mindboggling, is to make this comparison in the first place.

Why compare with something we dont want?
How is it making your argument valid, that you compare an imbalance within this mod with an imbalance in nativ? Apples and Oranges a lot? FFS, i cant even see an argument of yours other then a blunt try to discredit the arguments of another and rectify it afterwards.

Corsair i had seen you brilliantly making points on several topics, this here is not the way you do it normally.

-------------------------
Anyways, for me the best thought and creational process would be, imagine the best possible reality, then try to find a way to it.

We may agree or disagree on some points, but anyone who was in the past 2 months regularly on eu1, just knows we have a ranged investation "at times". That then leads to players joining eu2. Eu2 is but for other reasons for many not that much enjoyable as eu1 is ... so they stop playing alltogether. Thats the reality atm, deal with it.

...
Since chadz announced Melee being in development, this mod just serves one purpose. To keep these people busy until better version comes out.

depends on your perspective, so sad but true 'also', still perhaps at some point , development of cRPG complettly would be handed over to other programmers, may it be Paul or others, doesnt matter who aslong it would go on. It has not to be only end all start new, both could coexist, and cRPG could also be adapted for M&B2, how unlikely that may seem to you now.

[Dalhi]

Why compare with something we dont want?
How is it making your argument valid, that you compare an imbalance within this mod with an imbalance in nativ?

Got to agree with kinngrimm on that, fact that TW fucked it up in Native doesn't mean that it's any good. If you like it or not, crpg is a different game.

[Panos_]

it's just like, after playing native, where archers are accepted as "ok they're fine", then you come to crpg where they're just weak as toffee, and the one which has more rage against archers is the one where they're a lot weaker

it just boggles the mind

A player who cant block more than 2 hits in a row without his shield, that always whines about the kicks, oh I almost forgot the uber 1h spam and the agi whoring, is calling other players bad, haha I fucking love guys like you 

Drop your shield, try playing a normal build, and then see if you`re gonna whine aswell or not.