Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Rogue]

But so is Oberyn, I don't see a pattern here.

[Molly]

Oberyn is special in any case

[Sniger]

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[[ptx]]

If you go past your nerd-rage you will see that I didnt contradict one point you made in your "reply" a few inchs up on your screen. Basically I dont feel you're adressing me in your last posts, got that feel from Dave & co since page 30+ but from you its new!

No, i'm pretty sure i'm adressing you - or at least whatever you wrote.

[Butan]

Ignore that post if you dont like off-topic backpedalling over-intellectualizing post 

(click to show/hide)

You should consider skipping back 20+ pages and read all the nonsense you wrote once more and then re-think your silly approach to this matter.

I may or may not have been in contradiction with myself in the last hundred page, but in a so lenghty debate that wouldnt be totally impossible    I dont think its as different as you might try to make it appear though. On that off-topic matter: if your actual self doesnt differ from the self of the first pages, it would mean that this thread was inconsequential to your views of the events in Ukraine. If you are proud of having your opinion set in stone, thats an entirely different thing too.
If you had read me as accurately as you pretend to have, you would have seen I'm not as single-minded as you think, I concede points where I think they should.

No, i'm pretty sure i'm adressing you - or at least whatever you wrote.

Have fun talking to my phantom image of your own mind then!

[Corwin]

Ukrainians mobilizing, but to me it seems just a defensive precaution agains troubly in eastern part of the country, nothing to do with Crimea.

I still believe it would be possible to come to the agreement, if Russians decide Crimea is enough. I mean, Crimea is not really heartland of Ukraine, it has no historical significance to Ukrainians, and to be honest it was integrated in the country with complete bureaucratic bullshit decision. Moreover, even without Russian interference Ukraine would face a great problem with controling the population that wants to be part of Russia.

However, it is part of the Ukraine and it cost Ukraine a lot of money. How come no one comes up with the proposal to organize a fair referendum, this time with international observers and such, and if Crimea decides to split that Ukrainians deliver a bill to Russkies. For example, we invested in Crimea that much billions of dollars since 1954, please pay up. The bill could be 900-1000 billions of dollars. It would be cheaper for Russians than economic sanctions, and Ukrainians wouldn't have to worry about foreign debts anymore.

No one would be too happy, but no one would be too unhappy. 

Its not like something like that did not happen before, take Louisiana Purchase for example.

[Christo]

Will it really get better for them in Russia?

[Yarl]

Will it really get better for them in Russia?

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 :D

[Christo]

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[Falka]

if Russians decide Crimea is enough. I mean, Crimea is not really heartland of Ukraine, it has no historical significance to Ukrainians, and to be honest it was integrated in the country with complete bureaucratic bullshit decision.

I think that the problem is not Crimea in itself, but the precedence precedent which takes place currently and which can be followed by another "refererendum" in the future. The loss of Crimea probably wouldn't be big deal for Ukraine from economical or historical point of view, but for russia it will be clear signal that they can do whatever they want and noone will lift a finger to stop them.

[Leshma]

precedence

nope

[Tovi]

I think that the problem is not Crimea in itself, but the precedence which takes place currently and which can be followed by another "refererendum" in the future. The loss of Crimea probably wouldn't be big deal for Ukraine from economical or historical point of view, but for russia it will be clear signal that they can do whatever they want and noone will lift a finger to stop them.

You mean like US empire ? They can invade Irak without any legit (just one exemple). Oh yes i'm french so I like Russia and I hate hamburgers.
When west germany annexed east germany, nobody moved a finger too.
When Kosovo or south Sudan voted for independance it was a wonderfull victory for democracy. But in Crimea, it's different, it's RUSSIA, those infamous commies, the new axis of EVIL. Please God help America and is buffon John Kerry (Skull and Bones inc.)

[Overdriven]

Yes the US acted like dicks in Iraq. The whole world knows that.

But that doesn't mean Russia can act like dicks in Crimea to.

They are completely separate events with no relation to each other.

Not to mention the Western Governments that got involved in Iraq have now largely, completely changed (on the face).

US ect cooked up a whole pile of shit problems for themselves with Iraq in every which way and now Russia are doing the same thing.

[Tovi]

No it's not a reason To invade any country. But it's a reason to show some humility in international relationships. First, by not trying to destabilize other countries with billions of $$.
Or spy them...

[Falka]

When west germany annexed east germany, nobody moved a finger too.

Maybe you don't know but unification of germany was approved by parliament of east germany. And I don't get it how actions of USA in middle east justify what Russia does in crimea.

When Kosovo or south Sudan voted for independance it was a wonderfull victory for democracy. But in Crimea, it's different, it's RUSSIA, those infamous commies, the new axis of EVIL.

I'm quite sure referendum would be utterly different judged by public opinion in europe if there wouldn't be russian troops in crimea.