Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Oberyn]

Just do what's right.  Who said you had to follow anyone's example?  Do so if the example inspires you.  You have to grow up sometime.

Actually France is not doing too badly in the arms sales department herself.

Between 2004 and 2008, with 0.9% of the world's population, France had 9% of the international arms sales.
In the period 2009 to 2013 the sales fell to 5% of world wide arms sales.

The US, with 4.4% of the world's population, had 30% and 27% of the market in those time periods.

I guess the US is just full of weak money grubbing asshole children who don't have it in them to the right thing either. Let me know when you the US stops wiping the asses of Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.

[Tibe]

France is gonna get a huge fine from Russia if it doesnt deliver the ships and nobody is gonna pay it for them either. So aslong as USA isnt compensating for the deal that was already made, they shouldnt be the ones crying about it, cause they arent the ones paying the price. One might also think that "who gives a shit about a stupid fine". But like it or not Russia is a big player and France has to pay eventually, somehow. I admit, I dont like that they are selling the ships to Russia, but frankly I understand completely.

[Molly]

France is gonna get a huge fine from Russia if it doesnt deliver the ships and nobody is gonna pay it for them either. So aslong as USA isnt compensating for the deal that was already made, they shouldnt be the ones crying about it, cause they arent the ones paying the price. One might also think that "who gives a shit about a stupid fine". But like it or not Russia is a big player and France has to pay eventually, somehow. I admit, I dont like that they are selling the ships to Russia, but frankly I understand completely.

Well, there were several sales from Germany which are on hold now.

[Tovi]

I actually lol so hard when Tovi posts that I don't even want to mute him. According to Tovi, Ukraine is led by nаzi-jews 

You really say shit, as always. You still try to deny that you're led by nazees. Even Israel condemned Ukraine for its violences against the jewish community. Svoboda is clearly a nazee party. And you fucking try to defend yourself by pretending i'm antisemit ?You 're not better than Xant.

I'll lol, when I'll see your city reduced to dust by french weapons.


At least, I read some good news  :

The International Criminal Police Organization has put Ukrainian Right Sector leader Dmitry Yarosh on its wanted list, according to the cross-border police body’s official website.

Interpol has fulfilled Russia’s April request to issue an arrest warrant for Yarosh for “public incitement to terrorist and extremist activities involving the use of mass media.”

May these sons of  bitches finish in jail forever !

[serr]

And you fucking try to defend yourself by pretending i'm antisemit ?You 're not better than Xant.

I'll lol, when I'll see your city reduced to dust by french weapons.

 

Considering that Dave is from Odessa, that has significant jewish diaspora and there are stereotypes and a lot of jokes about jews from Odessa, your last statement indeed make you look like antisemit. As for Dave's comment, he just pointed that you contradict yourself:

Ukraine is led by nazee.
Ukrainian fascists hate jews.
The Porochenko gvt is under Igor Kolomoîski influence.
Igor Kolomoîski is ethnic jew.

Well, last statement is not from your posts, just a known fact, probably too mainstream for you.

[Butan]

That's a lot of words just to say that the US did not lie about anything.  The US did say that they have evidence that a missile was launched from the territory of Russian backed separatists.  They also said it was tracked towards the MH flight and that contact with that plane was lost contemporaneously with the missile's arrival. 

It's not lying to give an opinion based on currently available information.

Now that the Russian backed proxies have given back the bodies of the dead after removing them, now that they have given back the "black boxes" after removing them from the crash scene, now that they have stopped cutting into the wreckage and disturbing the crash scene, maybe just maybe a proper crash investigation can take place to determine how the plane was brought down conclusively.

But given the evidence (much of it supplied by the Russian backed proxies themselves) now available any reasonable person can only conclude that MH 17 was brought down by a missile from a SAM battery located in the Russian proxy controlled area. 

Who supplies the Russian backed proxies with the training and or manpower to launch such a missile?  Again any reasonable person can conclude that it is Russia that supplies the expertise or the crews.  If that is true then it follows that Russia and by extension Putin bear responsibility for shooting down MH 17.

For anyone to voice that conclusion is not lying.  It is a logical conclusion based on available information.  I think it's a pretty widely held opinion world wide.

I was saying that USA has been accusing Russia to have been involved in destroying the plane at the first degree, which Xant denies they ever claimed. There is a profusion of official articles all around the world in every media that they did claim Russia to have done it. Exactly as everyone else did claim the other did it.

You are talking about USA/others accusing Russia to back the rebels. It is far more likely, and I am not refuting this.


Most of your post is made up of the most logical pieces of information hooked together, which then conclude with what you believe in.
Why I made that refuting post was to show that those arent the only pieces of information available, and that the US, along everyone else, has provided their share of illogical elements of accusation, and shouldnt be decreed as "never lying about anything", particularly on a topic like this.

[Turkhammer]

I guess the US is just full of weak money grubbing asshole children who don't have it in them to the right thing either. Let me know when you the US stops wiping the asses of Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.

Again France doesn't have to do what any other country does now does it?  Since France prides itself on it's moral and cultural superiority it should transcend all the other mere mortals and live up to the noble standard it has set for itself.

[Turkhammer]

I was saying that USA has been accusing Russia to have been involved in destroying the plane at the first degree, which Xant denies they ever claimed. There is a profusion of official articles all around the world in every media that they did claim Russia to have done it. Exactly as everyone else did claim the other did it.

You are talking about USA/others accusing Russia to back the rebels. It is far more likely, and I am not refuting this.


Most of your post is made up of the most logical pieces of information hooked together, which then conclude with what you believe in.
Why I made that refuting post was to show that those arent the only pieces of information available, and that the US, along everyone else, has provided their share of illogical elements of accusation, and shouldnt be decreed as "never lying about anything", particularly on a topic like this.

But Butan Putin and the Kremlin are directly responsible for this because they are destabilizing Ukraine and have provide the expertise if not the manpower to make the shoot down possible.  Putin doesn't have to push the button himself to be held culpable.  Just like a Mafia Don, he is held responsible for the actions of his hit men.  And to say this is so is not a falsehood.

You seem to be saying that the US is holding back some information that could refute that Russia is responsible for this.

[Turkhammer]

France is gonna get a huge fine from Russia if it doesnt deliver the ships and nobody is gonna pay it for them either. So aslong as USA isnt compensating for the deal that was already made, they shouldnt be the ones crying about it, cause they arent the ones paying the price. One might also think that "who gives a shit about a stupid fine". But like it or not Russia is a big player and France has to pay eventually, somehow. I admit, I dont like that they are selling the ships to Russia, but frankly I understand completely.

The US has and is paying an economic price for sanctions on Russia.  Sometimes you have to take a stand no matter what it costs.  I think Europe is much too hesitant to confront Russian aggression.  Do you think Russia will feel secure when it subjugates Ukraine?  Doesn't Moldova, and perhaps other border countries threaten to surround Russia with danger and western degradation?

Really tough sanctions MIGHT have a chance of convincing the oligarchs around Putin that it's just not worth it.  Russia can be a big player but it has to sell it's gas and energy to someone and China and India won't buy it all unless it's at prices that Russia can't even extract it for.

[Tovi]

Considering that Dave is from Odessa, that has significant jewish diaspora and there are stereotypes and a lot of jokes about jews from Odessa, your last statement indeed make you look like antisemit. As for Dave's comment, he just pointed that you contradict yourself:

Ukraine is led by nazee.
Ukrainian fascists hate jews.
The Porochenko gvt is under Igor Kolomoîski influence.
Igor Kolomoîski is ethnic jew.

Well, last statement is not from your posts, just a known fact, probably too mainstream for you.

I've never said ukrainian fascists are jews. Where ?????

I don't know if Igor Kolomoïski* is jew or not, I don't care. All I know is he's a nationalist and an oligarch (he owns the Privat bank). He's the guy who  encouraged Pravy Sektor to join local police and national guard. I'm sure Dave knows well his good friend : Igor Palytsia, who became governor of Odessa after the syndicate house burn.
With Igor Kolomoïski in command, the Mafia will prosper for a long time in Odessa. But... it's not my business you'll say.


A little gift :

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* although born jewish, he's known as antisemit. He was ousted from European council of jewish communities. Wich is not said in english wikipedia.

[Oberyn]

Again France doesn't have to do what any other country does now does it?  Since France prides itself on it's moral and cultural superiority it should transcend all the other mere mortals and live up to the noble standard it has set for itself.

Irony and lack of self-awareness are off the charts. It always makes me chortle when americans, who straightfacedly claim to be from the greatest country on earth that has ever existed, who think "number one" is their national motto, who are known to repeat endlessly that god himself favours them, start pretending France is this uniquely arrogant country. If there's one thing the US is certainly number one at, it's blind and uncompromising arrogance. 
Although that has a tendency to fall off in the face of real politik needs. Again, let me know when the obvious, obvious sources of all the terrorism and religious fanaticism in the mid-east are no longer the best of buds with the US. Noble US is obviously the only country with the balls do what needs to be done to win the War on Terror, unlike these wishy-washy euro's.

[Molly]

[...]
I'll lol, when I'll see your city reduced to dust by french weapons.
[...]

Such humanity much impressive wow.

Finally showing your true face there, huh?

To quote Panos:
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[Tovi]

Irony and lack of self-awareness are off the charts. It always makes me chortle when americans, who straightfacedly claim to be from the greatest country on earth that has ever existed, who think "number one" is their national motto, who are known to repeat endlessly that god himself favours them, start pretending France is this uniquely arrogant country. If there's one thing the US is certainly number one at, it's blind and uncompromising arrogance.

They call this Manifest destiny, and it's very pregnant in their culture.

We, french, just say our valours are universals 

[Tovi]

Such humanity much impressive wow.

Finally showing your true face there, huh?

To quote Panos:
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Yep, sometimes I lost my cold blood. 

[Xant]

I was saying that USA has been accusing Russia to have been involved in destroying the plane at the first degree, which Xant denies they ever claimed. There is a profusion of official articles all around the world in every media that they did claim Russia to have done it. Exactly as everyone else did claim the other did it.

You are talking about USA/others accusing Russia to back the rebels. It is far more likely, and I am not refuting this.


Most of your post is made up of the most logical pieces of information hooked together, which then conclude with what you believe in.
Why I made that refuting post was to show that those arent the only pieces of information available, and that the US, along everyone else, has provided their share of illogical elements of accusation, and shouldnt be decreed as "never lying about anything", particularly on a topic like this.

Still not seeing any proof of US lying. Wonder why? Oh right, that's because there is none.