Poll

Will Putin command further invasion of Ukraine:

He will and he should, because <random witty/boring reason>
He will, but he should not, because <random witty/boring reason>
He will not, because <random witty/boring reason>
Who is mister Putin?

Author Topic: Meanwhile in Ukraine  (Read 629047 times)

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Offline Turkhammer

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #4995 on: July 25, 2014, 04:53:19 am »
0
The falseness lies not in "it came from a separatist controlled area" but in the "all they ever said".

Explain it.

How is that a lie?

Offline Oberyn

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #4996 on: July 25, 2014, 10:09:59 am »
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If France and it's leaders weren't such money grubbing weak cunts that's just what they would do.

Yes, if only we could follow the US's brilliant and noble example when it comes to the MIC and sales thereof. Truly an inspiration.
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Offline Kuujis

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #4997 on: July 25, 2014, 12:38:48 pm »
0
Interesting interview by russian television  :!:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaXhASrJR2w&feature=youtu.be&t=3m35s

Offline BlindGuy

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #4998 on: July 25, 2014, 12:57:00 pm »
0
Interesting interview by russian television  :!:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaXhASrJR2w&feature=youtu.be&t=3m35s

Yeah that was all munspik to me Im afraid :P
I don't know enough

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Offline okiN

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #4999 on: July 25, 2014, 12:58:22 pm »
0
https://twitter.com/IlvesToomas/status/492422724690518017

I love how the Estonians already have such bad relations with Russia that they don't feel the need to mince words.
Don't.

Offline Kuujis

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #5000 on: July 25, 2014, 01:36:29 pm »
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Yeah that was all munspik to me Im afraid :P
Shit... well... ok, I sometimes forget myself  :rolleyes: To cut it short the host expected a quite different interview, but the "expert" turned out to have some balls. At first he almost said that russian def ministry is full of morons, who are arguing that Ukraine AF is stupid enough to send ground attack plantPLANE instead of interceptor to... well... actually intercept the airliner (they were discussing russian version of "there was Su25 in the air nearby and it could have shot down the plane), then the guest proceed to say stuff to an effect "lets stop fooling ourselves, its our weaponry and our guys fighting in Ukraine" and in the end, when then journo asked "so whats your opinion about what happened with the MH17?" the guest said "I don't think you will like what I think, so I will wait for official investigations to end before voicing my oppinion". It sounded like the journo was BEGGING for the guy to say "it was Ukraine's fault", but he did not :D

If Tovi wants to translate it differentlty - my russian was never that good, so be my guest to correct me!  8-)

*Corrected grammer-kiev-nac-gvard-right-wrong-left-sector comments :P
« Last Edit: July 25, 2014, 01:56:33 pm by Kuujis »

Offline serr

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #5001 on: July 25, 2014, 01:53:12 pm »
+1
Quote
that Ukraine AF is stupid enough to send ground attack plant instead of interceptor

Your translation is correct, but after last fakes from russian media, some could think that you indeed meant ground attack plant :)

Offline Butan

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #5002 on: July 25, 2014, 01:59:32 pm »
-1
Prove it.



Re-read last pages of that thread and use google, all the proofs you need are there.
If you cant bother, you have no business dealing in absolute claims like "one never lied about anything" when we have been showed the contrary.


US secretary of state, intelligence staff, white house press secretary, more officials than I could count, all claimed Russia was involved in the downing of the MH17.
The president Obama have been more cautious in his declarations, but that is exactly the same for president Putin.
Still, both sides have been claiming the other "have done it".

So saying what you said is as retarded as saying "Russia didn't lie about anything, all they ever said was that it came from a separatist controlled area."


Sorry for not cutting you any slack, but it is so rare that you express an actual opinion and not only harassing the people.

Offline BlindGuy

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #5003 on: July 25, 2014, 02:28:53 pm »
+5
... ground attack plant :)

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I don't know enough

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Offline Turkhammer

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #5004 on: July 25, 2014, 04:23:42 pm »
-1
Yes, if only we could follow the US's brilliant and noble example when it comes to the MIC and sales thereof. Truly an inspiration.

Just do what's right.  Who said you had to follow anyone's example?  Do so if the example inspires you.  You have to grow up sometime.

Actually France is not doing too badly in the arms sales department herself.

Between 2004 and 2008, with 0.9% of the world's population, France had 9% of the international arms sales.
In the period 2009 to 2013 the sales fell to 5% of world wide arms sales.

The US, with 4.4% of the world's population, had 30% and 27% of the market in those time periods.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2014, 05:19:14 pm by Turkhammer »

Offline Tovi

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #5005 on: July 25, 2014, 04:39:02 pm »
-3
About Mistral warships : Our foreign affairs minister remembers UK that the City host numerous russian oligarchs bank accounts...

About politic at Kiev : The Porochenko gvt is under Igor Kolomoîski influence. That's why he can't negociate any cease-fire. Pravy Sektor push to drive his "patriotic war".
Also, Porochenko is misinformed  by his secret services and his military staff (under Pentagon influence). They let him think that Slaviansk was a victory, but it was just a tactical retreat of the rebels.
Even Alexander Turchinov admited being misinformed by his secret services while he was in charge. By Valentin Nalyvaichenko, who worked at Washington last years. Also, the CIA has his office in  the SBU building.

About Ukrainian army : The National Guard (mostly infiltrated by Pravy Sektor) is less efficient at the battlefield than in police opérations and suppression of the resistance in the occupied cities (like in Dniepropetrovsk, Kharkov and Marioupol). A lot of sabotage operations still occur in these cities.
The regular army let the surrounded army of Strelkov escaped Slaviansk. Probably because some soldiers were corrupted. It's very common that ukrainian soldiers sell their weapons and equipment just to have some money or food.
Air attack with SU-25 are like suicide attacks now, with a dramatic loss ratio (close to 50%). They almost lost the aerial dominance. But they still have rocket lauchers that blindly destroy everything. And separatists can now launch counter-artillery attacks with their own artillery.
The movment of soldier's mothers is growing in the west of Ukraine. A lot of soldier desert the army and become beggars in the Kiev's streets. They probably lost around 50 000 soldiers during the fights, instead of the official's 4500.


About Gas : After the troubles in Ukraine last years, Gasprom built 2 new gas pipeline :
Nord Stream, under Baltic Sea, toward Germany. Actually in service (since 2011).
South Sream : Under Black Sea, must supply Austria and Italy (and Bulgaria, Serbia and Hungary). Its construction was interupted by USA and EU commission (...) in Bulgaria. Bulgaria, Italy and Austria tried to resist but the US diplomacy had the last word.
The Shale Gas extraction has a high depletion ratio : around 50% the first year. That's why you need to drill new wells constantly to maintain the production. That's what we call the "Shale Bubble". It decrease strongly the price of gas on the local market (north america) and will lead to a financial crash  within next 5 years.
That's why the USA need to export his gas. They pretend to "save Europe" from Russia's threat by selling their gas across the Ocean (wich is very expensive and quite impossible to do at a large scale).
« Last Edit: July 25, 2014, 05:05:55 pm by Tovi »
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Offline Turkhammer

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #5006 on: July 25, 2014, 04:46:57 pm »
0


Re-read last pages of that thread and use google, all the proofs you need are there.
If you cant bother, you have no business dealing in absolute claims like "one never lied about anything" when we have been showed the contrary.


US secretary of state, intelligence staff, white house press secretary, more officials than I could count, all claimed Russia was involved in the downing of the MH17.
The president Obama have been more cautious in his declarations, but that is exactly the same for president Putin.
Still, both sides have been claiming the other "have done it".

So saying what you said is as retarded as saying "Russia didn't lie about anything, all they ever said was that it came from a separatist controlled area."


Sorry for not cutting you any slack, but it is so rare that you express an actual opinion and not only harassing the people.

That's a lot of words just to say that the US did not lie about anything.  The US did say that they have evidence that a missile was launched from the territory of Russian backed separatists.  They also said it was tracked towards the MH flight and that contact with that plane was lost contemporaneously with the missile's arrival. 

It's not lying to give an opinion based on currently available information.

Now that the Russian backed proxies have given back the bodies of the dead after removing them, now that they have given back the "black boxes" after removing them from the crash scene, now that they have stopped cutting into the wreckage and disturbing the crash scene, maybe just maybe a proper crash investigation can take place to determine how the plane was brought down conclusively.

But given the evidence (much of it supplied by the Russian backed proxies themselves) now available any reasonable person can only conclude that MH 17 was brought down by a missile from a SAM battery located in the Russian proxy controlled area. 

Who supplies the Russian backed proxies with the training and or manpower to launch such a missile?  Again any reasonable person can conclude that it is Russia that supplies the expertise or the crews.  If that is true then it follows that Russia and by extension Putin bear responsibility for shooting down MH 17.

For anyone to voice that conclusion is not lying.  It is a logical conclusion based on available information.  I think it's a pretty widely held opinion world wide.

Offline Overdriven

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #5007 on: July 25, 2014, 04:51:44 pm »
0
(click to show/hide)

Insider information. Hear it first from Tovi.

Offline Tibe

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #5008 on: July 25, 2014, 05:18:55 pm »
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Seriuslly, why are you even still here Tovi. Absolutely not a single person here believes a single thing you post. Your info is some garbage picked up from the bottom of the internet mixed with your own retarded politicalviews and history that is extremely wrong. Its worthless....You havent been right about a single thing in this whole 300 page thread.

Offline DaveUKR

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #5009 on: July 25, 2014, 06:29:46 pm »
0
I actually lol so hard when Tovi posts that I don't even want to mute him. According to Tovi, Ukraine is led by nаzi-jews  :mrgreen:

Dave can you comment this video, as for me I don't like how people act there.
(click to show/hide)
I didn't watch the linked video (can't atm), but I saw it earlier on youtube, I believe it's the same video. I can only say that this is a situation when diamond cuts diamond. Both parties behaved wrong. People were way too aggressive and said a lot of wrong words, that guy is an SBU agent and he claims that those stripes were there since ages and meant to be the celebration of WWII victory. I can understand him but anyway you shouldn't have them, it's like having swаstika during WWII claiming that it's an indian sign of sun or whatever else it used to mean. This stripe is associated with separatists now (unfortunately) and you really must be a badass to have it hanging in your car while your mates fight and die (according to rumours: some Alpha squads of SBU were eliminated entirely during the beginning of this war when there was no ATO).