Poll

Will Putin command further invasion of Ukraine:

He will and he should, because <random witty/boring reason>
He will, but he should not, because <random witty/boring reason>
He will not, because <random witty/boring reason>
Who is mister Putin?

Author Topic: Meanwhile in Ukraine  (Read 622069 times)

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Offline Kuujis

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #3855 on: May 12, 2014, 08:35:49 am »
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They are simply in despair. This retaliatory opertion by Kiev made this people go to referendum. Apperance on sites never was so high before.
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
and many others video
I don't want to blame anyone. But Kiev authorities said on their main TV that there was 0% appearance.
(click to show/hide)
Well, choose one who lies, who not.
Let the shit gates open... This could be called referendum only in russia (c). A body of 1000 or even 10000 is NOT impressive, when you talk abou several milions, who should vote. Hell, there was a BUNCH of towns, which did not have ANY voting happening. And the "voting" - zero control for voting once, a truck with 100k voted VOTED cought prior to the elections... You fucking kidding me?  :|

Please, correlate this http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/05/08/despite-concerns-about-governance-ukrainians-want-to-remain-one-country/ to the results of your "referendum"?

Offline DonNicko

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #3856 on: May 12, 2014, 08:37:45 am »
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It truly does amaze me how Russians can be so twisted. I swear, they can look at a video of the first moon landing and claim it was Putin stopping an alien invasion. And they'll believe it.

I'm impressed by the level of brainwashing Putin's government has managed.
Xant how old are? seems about 10-12 years old

Offline DonNicko

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #3857 on: May 12, 2014, 08:46:28 am »
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Let the shit gates open... This could be called referendum only in russia (c). A body of 1000 or even 10000 is NOT impressive, when you talk abou several milions, who should vote. Hell, there was a BUNCH of towns, which did not have ANY voting happening. And the "voting" - zero control for voting once, a truck with 100k voted VOTED cought prior to the elections... You fucking kidding me?  :|

Please, correlate this http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/05/08/despite-concerns-about-governance-ukrainians-want-to-remain-one-country/ to the results of your "referendum"?
Yes I kidding you, how did you know that?

Offline Kuujis

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #3858 on: May 12, 2014, 08:55:17 am »
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Yes I kidding you, how did you know that?
Because you cant answer a single one question :) Like Vovka usually... Except his jokes are funneh sometimes and he can be serious (I think there were couple of posts from him on a serious note in this thread, which were really reasonable to my suprise  :rolleyes: )

Offline DonNicko

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #3859 on: May 12, 2014, 08:59:02 am »
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Because you cant answer a single one question :) Like Vovka usually... Except his jokes are funneh sometimes and he can be serious (I think there were couple of posts from him on a serious note in this thread, which were really reasonable to my suprise  :rolleyes: )
I gonna kidding you, how did they do that research? Maybe they did secret referendum?

Offline Kuujis

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #3860 on: May 12, 2014, 09:05:00 am »
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I gonna kidding you, how did they do that research? Maybe they did secret referendum?
http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/05/08/methods-in-detail/

Give or take 10%, barely a thing changes. They do not correlate to a fishy "only in russia(c)" style referendum. That is why I call BS on the said referendum and I call BS on "majority wants to be independent/in russia" statements.

And you still did not answer my question.

Offline DonNicko

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #3861 on: May 12, 2014, 09:13:46 am »
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http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/05/08/methods-in-detail/

Give or take 10%, barely a thing changes. They do not correlate to a fishy "only in russia(c)" style referendum. That is why I call BS on the said referendum and I call BS on "majority wants to be independent/in russia" statements.

And you still did not answer my question.
I can't say why there is a difference between Referendum and PEW research. One of them lies :lol:

Offline Kuujis

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #3862 on: May 12, 2014, 09:25:42 am »
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I can't say why there is a difference between Referendum and PEW research. One of them lies :lol:
Lets see... a fishy referendum, in PART of the region in question, whith VERY questionable verification of "one-vote-per-person" + intercepted VOTED bulletins in 100k amounts... Vs a reasonable looking oppinion pool, which WAS checked and trusted by a number of news agencies (mind you, I know they are far from the "single source of truth", but comparing to the "separatists" or putlers media - they still SHINE :) ). I do not know what I would choose...

Hmm...

So difficult. Much pain. Stronk choosing problem. Dillema. Complicated.

Except its not.

Offline Vovka

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #3863 on: May 12, 2014, 09:32:02 am »
+5
Because you cant answer a single one question :) Like Vovka usually... Except his jokes are funneh sometimes and he can be serious (I think there were couple of posts from him on a serious note in this thread, which were really reasonable to my suprise  :rolleyes: )
I would not allow myself to write stupid jokes on any professional forum where written by people who dedicated their lives to the topic subject. But when nerds on game forum in trash section talk about world politics and post  as an argument links to wikipedia, youtube videos, and links to articles for $ 1 per thousand characters, or people who have visited one day in Russia in 90-99 claim what they known all about russia and russian ppls, why not post some jokes about ur fat mom?  :P
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Offline DonNicko

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #3864 on: May 12, 2014, 09:32:44 am »
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Lets see... a fishy referendum, in PART of the region in question, whith VERY questionable verification of "one-vote-per-person" + intercepted VOTED bulletins in 100k amounts... Vs a reasonable looking oppinion pool, which WAS checked and trusted by a number of news agencies (mind you, I know they are far from the "single source of truth", but comparing to the "separatists" or putlers media - they still SHINE :) ). I do not know what I would choose...

Hmm...

So difficult. Much pain. Stronk choosing problem. Dillema. Complicated.

Except its not.
It's your opinion, that's OK. I don't pretend on the full truth.

Offline Kuujis

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #3865 on: May 12, 2014, 10:08:04 am »
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I would not allow myself to write stupid jokes on any professional forum where written by people who dedicated their lives to the topic subject. But when nerds on game forum in trash section talk about world politics and post  as an argument links to wikipedia, youtube videos, and links to articles for $ 1 per thousand characters, or people who have visited one day in Russia in 90-99 claim what they known all about russia and russian ppls, why not post some jokes about ur fat mom?  :P
Like... about he/she/it being so fat, he/she/it could go selling shade in hot summer day in Sevastopol (you know, to make it relevant ;) )?

It's your opinion, that's OK. I don't pretend on the full truth.
Sooo... whats your oppinion? That the referendum in given circumstances and with zero transparency is a legitimate and reasonable expression of peoples will? Or the will of the guys counting the votes (in secrecy BTW, with no observers allowed in)? :shock:
Here is a funny story for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_%281946%29 , relevant given the opacity of vote counting :rolleyes:

Offline Molly

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #3866 on: May 12, 2014, 10:20:16 am »
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Just to make a few simple points about the referendum:

1.) They didn't have any lists with voters on it. They simply wrote down who voted - well, on a piece of paper with a pen, not some fancy network.
2.) There are several videos showing people doing 3-4 votes as one person. Nobody told them to stop. They just shove the paper in the see-through(!) voting box, just a few more than just 1 for good measure.
3.) Huge areas with population were without even one box. Where "normally" and before were 100 voting stations, there were 10.
4.) Representative pre-vote casts showed 70% (sometimes more, sometimes less) for a united Ukraine - now it's even close to 90% against it.

The first 3 are fixed. No use for a discussion. They are "THE THRUTH". No point in denying or discussing them really.

But yea, totally worth the time and effort, this referendum. It's basically build on the foundations of the basic principles of democracy. Good job, awesome... :lol:

Don't get me started on missing observers and people with AKs "guarding" the voting stations...

Looks like scare factor of gunfire doesn't work on these people.

Thin line between bold and stupid.
Tbh, sometimes I think that in those situations it's pure Darwin working his magic. How stupid or more likely drunk do you have to be, to grab and hold some "soldier" at his weapon?
When west germany annexed east germany, nobody moved a finger too.

Offline Xant

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #3867 on: May 12, 2014, 11:09:08 am »
+5
Xant how old are? seems about 10-12 years old
Oh my god! The age insult! I am offended to my very core, and my rebuttal follows: ur 8-9 yers old!!!!!!
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Offline Kafein

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #3868 on: May 12, 2014, 11:10:04 am »
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Nothing romantic in that, they just don't know better. Love for things that aren't living beings is something that is artificially implanted in our psyche. You don't love your nation as 3 year old but you have feelings for little animals and your baby brother or sister.

Soldiers are people who depend on each other to survive and that is the nature of strong bond between them. They are manipulated by system to act like they do.

Your grand unification scheme will bring more negative than you can imagine. It simply isn't natural way. On top of it, pretty much sounds like christian mumbo jumbo about heaven, angel order etc.

The natural way we have been evolving in for tens of thousands of years is tribal. That's obviously never going to happen ever again, so we have to think about something that can work. My point is, there has been nothing natural about the political structure of anywhere during the last 2000 years or so, depending on the region.

Feodalism and nationalism obviously don't work, so we might as well keep searching. Also I don't see how you can connect that to christian mumbo jumbo, the idea is purely humanist.

Offline Molly

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #3869 on: May 12, 2014, 11:49:50 am »
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Why should we search for something else. My life works as it is. I am not some politician with the power to change things. Neither are most politicians, I guess.
Humans will always adapt to the circumstances presented. There is no "fight the system", simply cuz the system will always win, will always prevail, in one form or another. But the form itself barely has any influence nowadays. At least in the... well, how to call them... Western countries?
In Germany I can do whatever I like or I am capable of, more like it. The system gives everyone a chance, no matter which background the person comes from. Granted, some have it harder than others but that has always been that way and probably it won't ever change. Other countries might do a better job to grant everyone chances (looking at you Scandinavia) but that is not my reality.

My point is that humans adapt to the reality they live in and try to do the best in it's limitations. The only limiting is the system itself but that system isn't really depending on the political but the social system. When you're satisfied with your very own social situation and those close to you, there wouldn't be any need to change things, right?
All those reasons to change for "the greater good" are actually just reasons like "I am not satisfied with my own situation!".
Whatever provides 99% of the people with satisfaction will work.
When west germany annexed east germany, nobody moved a finger too.