Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Kafein]

That will cost a lot of badboy points

Stop living in the past, it's all about aggressive expansion now.

I can see that Poland is now "Outraged" at Russia

[okiN]

Isn't that the natural state of being for Poland?

I always found it a bit strange how well they get along in Strat.

[Christo]

Stop living in the past, it's all about aggressive expansion now.

meh

[Butan]

Time for some personal speculation.. May be far off of course, input welcome.

I think Crimea has been the target of Russia since the end of the Soviet union, and they have just waited patiently for the time to strike.

I used to play a russian developed flight sim back in the day, SU-27 from 96 I believe. It was set in Crimea, and Crimea was the only map. I mean, it was pretty clear to me that even back then, they were practicing and researching and simulating different scenarios for how to take it back. The speed and smoothness in which they have now taken it, supports this theory.

To me, it seems they have just taken a fitting plan from the drawer now that Ukraine is in a weak position. The way that Ukraine has become weak is irrelevant for their plans.

It can even be argued that Crimea "belongs" to Russia more than Ukraine, and I wouldn't disagree completely.. Still, letting Russia just annex part of another civilized country is not something that can be accepted by the world.

History back up your point completely. Just the fact that Russia had a 250 years long naval contract made in the past for fleet rights, and how it was extended recently, explains why Crimea was important to Russia and still is.

I think most countries that have good advisors have some "programs" that fits probable scenarios like Ukraine seceding and subsequent Crimean annexation and they just followed it, hence the smoothness of the operation.


Some good reasons for why Crimea is important can be found here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_Fleet#Black_Sea_Fleet_and_Ukraine

[Angantyr]

On that note, the Danish armed forces have a pretty explicit plan for taking back Scania from Sweden, if the opportunity would ever arise.

[Christo]

On that note, the Danish armed forces have a pretty explicit plan for taking back Scania from Sweden, if the opportunity would ever arise.

Danes have no trucks?

[Thomek]

(click to show/hide)

History back up your point completely. Just the fact that Russia had a 250 years long naval contract made in the past for fleet rights, and how it was extended recently, explains why Crimea was important to Russia and still is.

I think most countries that have good advisors have some "programs" that fits probable scenarios like Ukraine seceding and subsequent Crimean annexation and they just followed it, hence the smoothness of the operation.


Some good reasons for why Crimea is important can be found here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_Fleet#Black_Sea_Fleet_and_Ukraine

Well, also let's not forget that Ukraine gave away their post soviet nuclear arsenal, with the promise that Russia would respect Ukraines territorial integrity. (Read: we give you all our nukes if you stay the fuck off Crimea)

That agreement is now used for toilet paper by Russia.. (as someone else here mentioned)  Stupid deal really.. Should have kept a few nukes as deterrent.. But you were friends, right?

[Leshma]

I think that if Dave/Oberyn/Kuujis  continue to scream COOKIE they are really going to believe what they say    who said brainwash?

Oberyn has a good excuse. At one point in his life certain douchebag spent whole afternoon calling him nazi. Since then, he can't think of anything else.

[BeastSVK]

On the other hand I would recommend all Russians to take a trip to the west, and see for yourself how a society can be, and you immediately see that the system you have is shit, wasteful, corrupted, thieving, two faced and lying.  (Just if you haven't noticed)

Rather dont atleast not into slovakia czech republic poland, hungary the truth is EU isnt win,EU west side is living of taking countries like mine or ukraina into it...my country slovakia have almost 0% of food production that is bought here all production here is mainly for foreigner companies like in mine city US steel or T systems... , they totaly fucked our internal economic so we cant care about ourselves we are just consumer slaves.. we have no production of our food anymore we are importing  from poland what they dont want gaarbige. even food from CHINA !!!,...only big brands taht came here and we are working for them coz we are cheap labours ..the realy wages here are between 300-500e ..but prices arnt so low as in other Eu member states..we are working poornes as we calling ourselves..our politicians are fucking corrupted and selling even our national parks to international corporations, we have no oil but we have black gold its called gypsy ..they are fucking cancer of our state and goverment are treating them like pets ...why ? eu donating it .. politicians take into their pockets and trinkets goes to gypsies so they holding their mouths shut...for example: white working mother with 3 childrens lets say in suppermarket getting payed like 400e working like a bitch .. and gypsy motehr getting 1100e to do nothing just have like 5 or more childrens..and i can continue but i am sick of this ..i am not telling its worst then in russia but they atleast are not slaves of others..in my opinion its same shit here as in russia..the diference is EU is acting like gold box and inside its rotten shit...
PS. i am not on side of EU and not on Russian side ..and certainly not on US side ...all sides are evil and poor ukraine is now frontline..russians see their interest EU see theirs ..hope no more blood will be splited take care ukraina brothers

[Strudog]

this topic had a good discussion going 40 pages back, but now it has resulted to name calling and moonspeak, i actually thought this was the only thread in the history of c-rpg forums that would not go full retard.

It still surprises me to this day

[serr]

NobleBeast, thank you for honest opinion and good wishes, but

lets say in suppermarket getting payed like 400e working like a bitch ..

What? 400euro, really? In Ukraine you would get like 200 in supermarket, unlikely more.
Aslo, never visited Slovakia, but I was in Czech Republic and prices there, at least for food, were nearly the same as in Ukraine. Of course it is clear that EU is not paradise, that no matter where you live you have to work if you want your life to be good, but I doubt that it would get worse for us in EU.

[[ptx]]

this topic had a good discussion going 40 pages back, but now it has resulted to name calling and moonspeak, i actually thought this was the only thread in the history of c-rpg forums that would not go full retard.

It still surprises me to this day

Going full retard would imply no chance at salvation. I believe this thread can still be redeemed.

[Macropus]

Не надо их так провоцировать товарищи/господа, вон некоторые европейцы уже слюной давятся совсем... Опять все игрушки на компах про плохих Русских будут.
Хотя и я лично такому баловству не потворщик - тихонько у соседних государств "кусочки" отрезать. Безобразие

What the @#$% fucking hell, how come this sick prick speaks Russian? 

[Dark_Blade]

NobleBeast, thank you for honest opinion and good wishes, but What? 400euro, really? In Ukraine you would get like 200 in supermarket, unlikely more.
Aslo, never visited Slovakia, but I was in Czech Republic and prices there, at least for food, were nearly the same as in Ukraine. Of course it is clear that EU is not paradise, that no matter where you live you have to work if you want your life to be good, but I doubt that it would get worse for us in EU.

UAH/USD = about 5 before orange revolution
UAH/USD = 7-8 when there was economical crisis (Yushchenko as president)
UAH/USD = 9.40-10 after revolution.

viva la revolution! we needed changes! here they are.

p.s. fixed xD

[Leshma]

NobleBeast, thank you for honest opinion and good wishes, but What? 400euro, really? In Ukraine you would get like 200 in supermarket, unlikely more.
Aslo, never visited Slovakia, but I was in Czech Republic and prices there, at least for food, were nearly the same as in Ukraine. Of course it is clear that EU is not paradise, that no matter where you live you have to work if you want your life to be good, but I doubt that it would get worse for us in EU.

It wont get worse but cant expect it to get much better any time soon. You can't expect to live like average German, because if that ever happens average German will again get pissed and start to kill everything around him. Replace German with any other strong country whose citizens are rich compared to others, like USA or UK. They might take you in their company, but only as shoe polisher

That is why is not worth to spill any blood over this. After all, this is your second "revolution" for past 10 years, we (Serbia) had only one. But oil pipe is going to pass through our country as well, we're in process of becoming part of EU and I must tell you that Gazprom officials weren't happy to hear that. Also major elections in two weeks, last were two years ago. Only purpose of these elections is to give certain party absolute power... and that party revolves around one man who will probably become our new dictator. In few years, I see myself protesting. But not because I'm patriot. That will be my best shot at becoming rich