What is your opinions on the WPF re-work?

[Life]

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Because this affects everybody &
Because polls are fun.

Discuss:

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We’ve decided to finally address the STR v AGI & WM issues and have decided on a rework to wpp totals, wpp costs and WM effectiveness formulas. Since this will affect everyone, we've decided to give everyone access to the exact formula and to give players the opportunity to ask some questions and give responses to the proposed change. Some questions I have asked are; Should we let the community make the final decision, what exactly should the new wpf formula look like and most importantly, how to handle reimbursements?

So what does the change look like? For starters, free wpf from leveling has been removed. Second, the new base wpp (weapon proficiency point) allows for 20 wpf (weapon proficiency) in a single weapon type. Next, each point in Agility will now grant you varying amounts of wpp. Finally, 6 WM was chosen as the amount one would need to remain mostly unaffected by this change; 5 or fewer points result in lower wpf values, 7 or greater result in higher wpf values.

Sounds great, but what does it look like? Well, here:

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If you want the formulas, to be able to play with numbers to get a better idea or to perhaps update preexisting calculators, here’s that too:

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wpf_gained_per_WM_increase = 55 + 20 * new_WM_value
wpf_gained_per_AGI_increase = 14
sum formula: 15+55*WM+20*(WM*(WM+1)/2)+14*AGI
cost formula: floor(.0005*wpf^2+3)

For most hybrids, there are two possibilities for how this can affect you. If you have an even 1:1 split, you will find yourself having less wpf in both, up until higher WM values. If you have something like a 2:1 split, you will go largely unaffected.

If you don't read the forums much or you haven't been around very long, maybe you’re wondering why we’re even doing this. Well, there are two reasons and they’ve been complained about quite consistently for years now. First, is that strength synergizes with so many different things that it’s objectively the better of the two attributes. Second, WM and wpf scaling leaves much to be desired. A dedicated melee build simply doesn’t gain much from WM past 3 or so points. Strength stackers shouldn’t be able to completely forsake WM and Agility without worry. Stacking anything, regardless of what it is, should always come at the cost of something else that is equally important.

Now with that out of the way, we can get to the part where we want the community’s input. Of course there is the obvious “what do you think of the change?” but what we’re more interested in, is what you believe the minimal reimbursement would be for implementing this. We believe what would be most appropriate is reimbursing something like 6 Strength attributes and however many skill points that amounts to(This is currently the plan). It’s clear that full respects aren’t desired on our end (chadz says no), so what could you get by with, without an excessive amount of QQ? 

All responses and critiques appreciated(Aside from grammatical ones). Thanks for reading.

Edit 1: I guess I forgot to state this, but your wpf will be reset.

Edit 2: For clarification on the current(could change) reimbursement... The patch will come out and people will log in to begin playing. They will then notice they have 6 more attributes that they can spend and 6 less str than what they had before. They will also notice that any skill points they had that would have required higher values of str than what they currently(the moment after the patch goes live) have, were also refunded. So 18str and 6 powerstrike and 6 iron flesh gets turned into 12 str, 4 powerstrike, 4 iron flesh and you're credited the points.

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Yall make me log in for this shit.

So using the formula from *source omitted*:

damage = (1 + 0.08 * PS)(0.85 + 0.0015 * WPF) * BASEDAMAGE + STR / 5

if you are only interested in damage bonus, here is a table of new and old damages for a weapon with base damage 40 (average greatsword damage)

BaseDamage: 40

str	ps	agi	wm	if	wpfold	wpfnew	damold	damnew
36	12	3	0	11	111	20	86.8936	76.192
33	11	6	2	8	123	76	84.3944	79.0928
30	10	9	3	7	130	100	81.24	78
27	9	12	4	6	138	121	78.1216	76.3672
24	8	15	5	5	146	139	74.9264	74.2376
21	7	18	6	4	154	155	71.6544	71.748
18	6	21	7	3	163	170	68.3944	69.016
15	5	24	8	2	172	184	65.048	66.056
12	4	27	9	1	180	198	61.536	62.9616

These are the generic level 30 builds which are most commonly used. As you can see, WPF plays almost no part in the damage calculation, and full str builds are still more than viable under the changes. The major fault with the current system is the insanely low swingspeed increase per wpf (something like .0001 per WPF if i remember correctly? so 200 wpf is 2% increase...) and the fact that STR gives 1 hp per raw stat, and is tied to iron flesh. Neither of these issues are addressed, so I don't know what this change accomplishes.

I will make a note that none of this includes speedbonuses, which I have no idea how to factor in. Also, 27/12 or 30/9 will be the new cheese builds that everyone complains about.

[Eugen]

I don't like that it fucks hybrids even more.

Lobbying for Hybrid class  -> I play hybrid class.

Case closed.

[Grumbs]

Think its a good excuse for semi respec. Besides that I don't really care too much. I'll go 18/24 instead of my usual 24/18

If you want to be uber hybrid then go for more WM, its what the skill is for. The game doesn't suit hybriding too much anyway, thats why we have classes

[TheAppleSauceMan]

It's going to make hitting 34 even more fun. 21/21 should be ridiculous with 7 WM all in one spec 

[WITCHCRAFT]

This seems kinda redundant, since this discussion is going on in the official thread Tydeus posted to announce the change 

But to post some content, my current build has a goal of 24/21 with only PS, shield, and Ath. Gonna have to think things over, since that was my hopeful "final build" for my main.

[EyeBeat]

I am glad that hybrids are finally getting nerfed.

[ArysOakheart]

I am glad that hybrids are finally getting nerfed.

But my Trident will be even slower

[ARN_]

Bring back eu4!

[Heibai]

Agi builds gonna be even more annoying on normal battle/siege mode.

But actually a good balance for strat, because str builds were dominating strat battles, especially sieges. (Except 1-2 individuals)

As a mainly strat player, I'm happy to see less pure str players in these battles and more balanced builds. High agi builds (under 15/12 str) are fucked anyways on strat

Just my opinion.

[Tindel]

It makes 0 WM builds less good, thus a nerf to str monster builds. Which i think is good because full agi builds are gimp.
It is a slight buff to specs with high WM, which wont do much because WM in itself doesnt really do much.
People who want to hybrid spec have to use alot of WM to make it work, so 18agi minimum.

All in all i dont think it will do much, since wpf does so little overall.
And if it means less people with ranged sidearms, i will be happy

[Leshma]

The game doesn't suit hybriding too much anyway, thats why we have classes

Warband has classes, cRPG doesn't. Just because you choose to use one weapon and put all weapon proficiency points in that branch doesn't mean you're bound to a specific class.

[Bjord]

I'm pretty chill where I am right now; 21/21. The wpf respec suits me well, going to go back to swashbuckling.

[Algarn]

I wonder if I should become a pure ranged whore at the moment ... Put 6 PS and PD , and everything else in agi skills.

[Tzar]

Like it, but since it will wreck hybrids i say fuck it.....

Hybrids have never been better then pure builds. So its retarded it gets nerfed.....

[Akynos]

Str was a bit too easy as one could swing quite fast for a metal turtle. Now with 20 WPF you'll still have a great damage output whilst being truly vulnerable to agi builds. This is how it should have always been.