WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)

[Vermilion]

I think some of you need to add or subtract 10-20 wpf from your melee builds(while staying above an effective 100 wpf amount) so you can get a better idea of how much speed were not talking about.

If you're referring to my post in this statement, I meant a soft cap making WPF max out for most players around 120 rather than being able to reach 170+. I'm not talking about the additional 10 wpf archers will receive. (Though I do think the wpf penalties would have to be reduced for ranged, or a lower soft cap for ranged WPF so ranged can still reach about 150WPF)

For throwers, we can did* easily change the wpf per PT requirement if that has been deemed necessary(probably should), as we're already altering other, similar formulas.

YES this sounds very good! A lot of work to have each class (or at least ranged) have its own formula, but I think in the end this would be the best system.

[Tydeus]

What about instead of the -1 to each agility skill, how about a full reimbursement for a single skill of our choosing? This would allow hybrids to drop their PD or PT secondary. After all, a hybrid crossbowman (who already gets the best deal of all the hybrids), gets to easily drop xbow, but a hybrid archer or thrower will be "stuck".

Because you're bordering on changes that are analogous to a full respec. We don't want people to change classes but to some extent, it can't be helped. I am highly doubtful that most players will be doing so, especially because crossbowers are the least affected by this patch out of all classes. Regardless of what people may think, xbows just don't require much wpf to reach max accuracy with. It's not like shieldless players will be respeccing to shielded 1hers or hoplites, that would require skills(in could happen, but would require converting str attributes to skills). This leaves us with the only common or easily accessible class change being 2h to poles and vice versa.

All that has to be done right now, from my understanding, is simply pulling the character data from the database and then running a script that modifies all character stats by lowering str and a few skills, it's not done by the website. Letting players "choose" the skill to fully reimburse would have to be done at the website, and is a feature that would only get used this once.

[Prpavi]

More agi builds? ok...

Edit 1: I guess I forgot to state this, but your wpf will be reset.

As soon as this happens you have yourself lvl 32 Archer :*

EDIT: unless... dunno didn't read all 15 pages 

[Osiris]

sure lvl 32 archer with no PD

[Prpavi]

sure lvl 32 archer with no PD

ah yes, no full respec just 6 str and wpf, just read it... damn, so close 

[Phew]

Because you're bordering on changes that are analogous to a full respec.

A 24/18 full 2h player will be able to easily respec to 18/24 archer, which is as close to a full class change as possible. Yet a polearm/thrower can't make the much more minor switch to dedicated polearm?

Here's something that can be scripted: if melee wpf>bow or throwing wpf, refund all PD/PT points. How's that?

[Brutal]

For throwers, we can did* easily change the wpf per PT requirement if that has been deemed necessary(probably should),

My problem with throwing is that for throwing lance the only build that s kind of ok is 21/18 because of the 7 pt requirement.


which mean thats the best you can do is 120/100  wpf which mean you have bad accuracy. (you used to be able to do that with 5 wm)

I think you should have okish accuracy(130-135 wpf) with at leat 100wpf in melee .

Reduce throwing lance to 6 pt requirement pretty please.


People that say it's fine to have the lowest wpf possible for throwing don't really rely on throwing or have not experimented with it much...

[Falka]

Phew, if you want to get rid of your PT buy training lessons for 1 mln gold... 

[Tydeus]

A 24/18 full 2h player will be able to easily respec to 18/24 archer, which is as close to a full class change as possible. Yet a polearm/thrower can't make the much more minor switch to dedicated polearm?

Here's something that can be scripted: if melee wpf>bow or throwing wpf, refund all PD/PT points. How's that?

Sure, if they're willing to sacrifice something that is already good, for a really poor build(only 4PD when they could have 6 with that amount of str, that's a 28% raw damage loss). This is what I was talking about, it's illogical and ineffective to do this, so I doubt many will, thus it's a non issue. What would be more likely, is that people would convert str attributes to skills and go 18/21. But I can assure you, there's no reason to think this will happen either. A 7WM 154/73 wpf split will remain exactly a 154/73 wpf split after the patch. So again, why use this change to respec from something that is almost completely unharmed, to something that is literally unchanged? A mere 6 wpf loss isn't very convincing.

[Brutal]

The archer/xbowman will always use his ranged weapon over melee even if he has the same melee capabilities, because using ranged weapons is an advantage and using advantages is smart. Crossbowman with 21/18 build is either not a crossbowman or has a fail build. You can call it a melee player with a crossbow.

All i know is when i have 3 ps with 90 wpf i am more enticed to go into melee if i think i can influence things than with 0wpf and 0 ps.
If i know putting some wpf into melee will be horribly expensive it is then logic to do as you say and totaly give up melee which i think we wont to avoid yeh ?

I don't know about crossbow but from the damage i take from some arrows i am pretty sure there is a lot of archers with 21/18 or 24/18 build.

[San]

Interesting fact, for high levels, the free wpf we have is so good that only those well above 7WM will notice a large change.

Level 35:

7WM:  168 wpf, -2 compared to new values
8WM:  176 wpf, -8
9WM:  184 wpf, -14
10WM:192 wpf, -18
11WM:201wpf, -22

And so on. 15/30 looks intriguing for a high level because of the wpf difference. Looking at my damage calculator, the damage difference is so negligible for damage values ~30-34 compared to 18/27 that it might be worth switching to it.

Edit: Negligible compared to current 18/27 values, not new ones.

[Phew]

Phew, if you want to get rid of your PT buy training lessons for 1 mln gold... 

Since I have 7 WM, I have plenty of wpf to support 5 PT, even in heavy armor. So I'll be fine. But there are hybrid throwers with 5 PT and only 12 AGI, and they will be totally screwed by this change.

[kinngrimm]

and the -6 str and skill reduction has already been coded.

Don't throw us a bone and then deny us the pleasure chewing on it.

(click to show/hide)

but what we’re more interested in, is what you believe the minimal reimbursement would be for implementing this.

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Perhaps a poll would help?

Suggestion 1)
changeable 6 attr and skill points

Suggestion 3)(Tydeus suggestion)
6 str respec and 3 skill points

Suggestion 3)
special respec for 400k gold, available for 1 month, once per player

Suggestion 4)
use the "all thine hard work has payed of", so that also within a month anyone who would win this message, gets a free respec, again only once per player. (i quite like this idear, as you may get also the player more active this way. A goal given a goal reached)

[Sauce]

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[HardRice]

Sorry if this is a repeat question, but when is this patch coming out?