About horsemen

[Adrian_Cyrius]

I wanna make two suggestions about horses, but I never used horses, so I dunno if they're still implemented.
I asked about this in game and they said no, they're not implemented. I also felt they wasn't.

But I think my suggestions whould make horsemen less "free" to run here and there to bring disasters.
I tried to make only "realistic" suggestions. So stuffs which have a sense in reality.
I hope it's possible to implement them in the game.

1. When an horsemen runs over a metal armor infantry, the horse should get (at least) a bit hurt. Horses are not so resistent on legs. Obviously they should also be (at least) a bit hurt when horsemen hit an obstacle (a rock, an house, another horsemen, so they both get hurt).

2. When an horsemen charges an infantry and the footed guy jumps, if the horsemen body hits the jumping footman, the horsemen should be stunned for a while, too. I don't mean they have to fall ground, but at least be forced to half speed and can't change direction for half a second (or something similar).

Those are my main two suggestions.

In truth I also would like if:
- Horsemen's horse would be forced to half speed when horsemen attack with weapon (but maybe it's not so "realistic" at the end).
- There was possibility to find "versus" servers where horsemen are forbidden (other than DtV where AI uses horses too, actually).

Ok, thank you all for reading me.
Bye!

[PhantomZero]

I wanna make two suggestions about infantry, but I never used infantry, so I dunno if they're still implemented.
I asked about this in game and they said no, they're not implemented. I also felt they wasn't.

But I think my suggestions whould make infantry less "free" to run here and there to bring disasters.
I tried to make only "realistic" suggestions. So stuffs which have a sense in reality.
I hope it's possible to implement them in the game.

1. When an horsemen runs over a metal armor infantry, the infantry should get (at least) a bit hurt. Infantry are not so resistent to a 1100lb animal crashing into them at full speed. Obviously they should also be (at least) a bit hurt when infantry hit an obstacle (a rock, an house, another infantry, so they both get hurt, this could also reflect an infantry falling over or tripping during a battle!).

2. When an infantry charges an horse and the footed guy jumps, if the horsemen body hits the jumping footman, the infantry should be stunned for a while, too. I don't mean they have to fall ground, but at least be forced to half speed and can't change direction for half a second (or something similar).

Those are my main two suggestions.

In truth I also would like if:
- Infantry would be forced to half speed when horsemen attack with weapon (but maybe it's not so "realistic" at the end).
- There was possibility to find "versus" servers where pikes are forbidden (other than DtV where AI uses horses too, actually).

Ok, thank you all for reading me.
Bye!

[EponiCo]

- There was possibility to find "versus" servers where horsemen are forbidden (other than DtV where AI uses horses too, actually).

Duel server. Siege server. (Yes they are not forbidden but mostly unusable there).

[Paul]

I wanna make two suggestions about players, but I never used players, so I dunno if they're still implemented.
I asked about this in game and they said no, they're not implemented. I also felt they wasn't.

But I think my suggestions whould make players less "free" to run here and there to bring disasters.
I tried to make only "realistic" suggestions. So stuffs which have a sense in reality.
I hope it's possible to implement them in the game.

1. When an devs runs over a metal armor player, the player should get (at least) a bit hurt. Players are not so resistent to a 1100lb shoeless god of war crashing into them at full speed. Obviously they should also be (at least) a bit hurt when player hit an obstacle (a rock, an house, another player, so they both get hurt, this could also reflect an player falling over or tripping during a battle!).

2. When a dev charges and the footed guy jumps, if the dev body hits the jumping footman, the player should be stunned for a while, too. I don't mean they have to fall ground, but at least be forced to half speed and can't change direction for half a second (or something similar).

Those are my main two suggestions.

In truth I also would like if:
- Players would be forced to half speed when devs attack with weapon (but maybe it's not so "realistic" at the end).
- There was possibility to find "versus" servers where whines are forbidden (other than DtV where AI uses bad pathing too, actually).

Ok, thank you all for reading me.
Bye!

[Radix]

+ for phantomzero

[Adrian_Cyrius]

But I think my suggestions whould 1. When an horsemen runs over a metal armor infantry, the infantry should get (at least) a bit hurt. Infantry are not so resistent to a 1100lb animal crashing into them at full speed. Obviously they should also be (at least) a bit hurt when infantry hit an obstacle (a rock, an house, another infantry, so they both get hurt, this could also reflect an infantry falling over or tripping during a battle!).

Infact they already do. Horsemen running over an infatry hurts them and stun them.
Except no sense infantry should get hurt if walking on obstacles. They don't run on obstacle at horsemen speed.

2. When an infantry charges an horse and the footed guy jumps, if the horsemen body hits the jumping footman, the infantry should be stunned for a while, too. I don't mean they have to fall ground, but at least be forced to half speed and can't change direction for half a second (or something similar).

Infact they already do. The same as said for "run over infantry".

- There was possibility to find "versus" servers where pikes are forbidden (other than DtV where AI uses horses too, actually).

Well... it's not exact the "contrary" of what I suggested... you should had suggested "where INFANTRY are forbidden"... and in this case, actually, I could even agree with you!

Duel server. Siege server. (Yes they are not forbidden but mostly unusable there).

Yep, I agree about Siege. Even if I still saw some few horses sometimes (but few horsemen are not a problem, at the end).

But Sieges currently have two problems.
1. I saw in a server they implemented some maps... without a castle or buildings/walls to defend! Just a flag in the middle of nothing. And those maps are even worse than battle. I still didn't understand if those maps were inserted as custom on that server only or are in the game by default, anyway.
2. In  EU_5 there is a map which stucks the server when loading. It keeps re-loading that map infinitely.
You can only close the game with ALT+F4 then...

[Kafein]

Well if horses are hurt realisticly when they trample people, maybe they could actually trample people and do realistic damage when this happens. Ofc, realistic damage in those situations would often mean death for the footman. So I suggest we keep the statu quo here.

[Adrian_Cyrius]

Well if horses are hurt realisticly when they trample people, maybe they could actually trample people and do realistic damage when this happens. Ofc, realistic damage in those situations would often mean death for the footman. So I suggest we keep the statu quo here.

I didn't suggest to make realistic amount of damange, I said at least just a bit of damage. Just to make "trampling" less "free from consequences".
As is now, horsemen just walk on all people they can't hit with their weapon. They have just to care about two handed footman (and only if they find people able to use them).

[kongxinga]

I wanna make two suggestions about infantry, but I never used infantry, so I dunno if they're still implemented.
I asked about this in game and they said no, they're not implemented. I also felt they wasn't.

But I think my suggestions whould make infantry less "free" to run here and there to bring disasters.
I tried to make only "realistic" suggestions. So stuffs which have a sense in reality.
I hope it's possible to implement them in the game.

1. When an horsemen runs over a metal armor infantry, the infantry should get (at least) a bit hurt. Infantry are not so resistent to a 1100lb animal crashing into them at full speed. Obviously they should also be (at least) a bit hurt when infantry hit an obstacle (a rock, an house, another infantry, so they both get hurt, this could also reflect an infantry falling over or tripping during a battle!).

2. When an infantry charges an horse and the footed guy jumps, if the horsemen body hits the jumping footman, the infantry should be stunned for a while, too. I don't mean they have to fall ground, but at least be forced to half speed and can't change direction for half a second (or something similar).

Those are my main two suggestions.

In truth I also would like if:
- Infantry would be forced to half speed when horsemen attack with weapon (but maybe it's not so "realistic" at the end).
- There was possibility to find "versus" servers where pikes are forbidden (other than DtV where AI uses horses too, actually).

Ok, thank you all for reading me.
Bye!

Coffee all over my keyboards from this. You owe me a new one . +1 for the absolute laugh.

cRPG is going to twtchy route, so versimilitude is not taken seriously, but if you hit someone in the belly with your fist, does your fist take damage? So why should horses take any measurable damage when they hit a crunchy, since they are hitting your soft parts with their advantage in mass, speed and possibly very nasty hooves? You ought to be glad they don't do instant kills.

[Adrian_Cyrius]

since they are hitting your soft parts

Uhm strange... I was so sure I talked about metal armor infantry...
Maybe it's just me mistaking... but I was also sure metal is not soft...
Or maybe you mean the horse is so intelligent and agile to only aim your armor weaknesses while walking on infantry? So it can't get any kind of hurt at all..

but if you hit someone in the belly with your fist, does your fist take damage?

Instead, ask yourself "if you hit someone strongly on a metal armor with your fist, does your fist get hurted?". The answer is "yes".


Maybe PhantomZero's post is funny. And I also accepted it as funny post. But keeps being senseless and without argumentation, as I answered to him.


Using an absurd example where there is a horsemen and 100 infantry without skills or right good weapons, the horsemen in the game could theoretically walk on them all.
This keeps being nonsense in my mind.

Adding a minimal amount of "hurt" (not lethal at all by itself) on the horse for trampling metal armor people, makes them have to care to not trample "too much" of them. For me is totally logical and more balancing.
Horsemen would keep being advantaged on footed infantry (as it is right to be), but they should care just a little bit more (not neither so much more!).
While the current is not a fair situation at all, IMHO.

This will keep being my opinion anyway. And I'll keep consider my suggestion a (very) valid one.

[kongxinga]

Well if you are not trying to present something seriously and going for absurdities...

//

When you hit an armoured horse in game with your bare fists, does your fist take damage? The horse for some reason does.

IN game, when you wear a small amount of armour horse bumps already do NO to little damage. It is the staggering that gets one killed, and yes, I agree the staggering IE bump slash that is possible at extremely low speeds is silly. Complained about it in beta, devs decided they needed to attract Steamers instead of the paradox wargamer crowd, so they kept it. Thier game, their business decisions, my decision to keep on complaining about that.

I do believe you greatly underestimate the damage a horse can do. Even if you wear your armour, it upgrades the "damage" done to the horse from " I heard a crunch, but did not feel anything" to "That's a nasty bruise". Still negligable. You are still out of the battle for that duration if not dead. How many cm of steel plate is your armour? Still mostly tissue paper to what you are facing. However, that's not really relevant. Wear a decent amount of armour in game and tell me whether you are taking charge damage.

And yes, horses are smart enough not to be retarded, unlike the robots we have here. Mounted men everywhere were trained to use the horse as a weapon. Biting kicking the works. The pitiful damage you are talking about can be considered to be modelling these factors. And yes, I wish they could model both human and horse "morale", but the suggestion was shot down quite early in beta from the steamer crowd yet again. You seem to believe the horse would move his belly to the tip of the sword during a bump, but a real horse will be smart enough to do damage while avoiding injury. The human skull is decently thick and hard, but cracks like an egg to a kick, and yes, the horse does not take measurable damage while doing so. So how much protection and damage would your thin steel skullcap provide you? So somehow cracking two eggs is going to hurt the horse how?

By what you are saying, we should upgrade all infantry so they are mythical clobham armoured quarterbacks so they can outram a horse, while horses instead are turned into jelly robotic creatures that are hurt everytime the horse touches anything. Did you see horses rearing in game when they do come near an obstacle? That's the horse automatically stopping BEFORE running into a wall.

If your goal is to make horsemen unable to use horses, why not suggest that each horses gets fitted with a explosive device that blows up when a certain amount of steps or time passes, because your "horses take damage from doing what they have been doing their whole lives, I am surprised they are even standing now, since you know the march to the battle field has plenty of hazards, including that nasty wall, that hazardous peasant, and that terrifying other horse, I mean I am even surprised they even manage to procreate, since that involves a horse "ramming" another horse (sorry:()" suggestion means pretty much the same thing.

//

On a more serious note, it is the staggering that can be induced from low speeds that kills people. If you are really worried about the charge damage, I believe 30 armour allows you to ignore unarmoured horses, and 40 armour allows you to ignore almost all horses. I like versimilitude (not "realism") as much as you do, but let's not be selective in implementing the parts of reality that is only beneficial to your class, since you play infantry only by your own admission. If horses are somehow going to take damage, expect instant deaths from being hit by a horse if the devs scale the damage correctly.

[Patricia]

I just find it retarded how horses can go full speed at a wall and just get rear'd, and also how you can rush full speed at a player and the player will get knocked down and your horse somehow has nothing, I know if I was a horse running full speed at someone, we'd both get knocked the fuck out and I'd probably trip all over the place.

[Adrian_Cyrius]

If your goal is to make horsemen unable to use horses

And it is not.

Infact my real suggestion aim was to implement something not debilitating at all for horsemen.
If an horse has 100hp, and get 5 damage for each trampling on metal armored infantry, they can still trample 20 warriors (or like) and still (probably) all bowmen and some crossbowmen on their way. And surely they would keep doing.
And this is just an example. The amount could be lesser...

[EDIT - Like: if horse gets 2 damage for every metal armor infantry trampled, they could still trample 50 of them! They should just count the risk to be hit by a weapon while their horse is already a bit hurt.]

It's just a matter of balance, infact.
Which is what I want, too: balance. And I don't feel it at all with "unbreakable" horses.

I neither talked about shields, 'cause I can guess they would be too much debilitating for them, and maybe neither so realistic.
If my aim was really to debilitate horses at infrantry advantage, I would had suggested to hurt horses on shields too... and, as said, I didn't.

Anyway I noticed horse rearing before hurting a wall... but as Patricia said, at full speed horses can't stop so fast.


So as you can see, I'm not talking about "how much hurt a real horse would get by walking on an armoured man".
It's a game... it have to be realistic, but also balanced.
If it should be "so realistic", horses should be at least lame everytime an horsemen runs them fulls-speed on a wall. And horses surely would fail to stop or turn by instinct...
So you see... if we really put inside "so realistic" arguments up to "your head cracks if an horse walks on you", we have to start put inside lot of other stuffs which includes impairments and similar!


So no point. You arguments about "too much realistic" doesn't fit, 'cause it's neither what I'm searching about. I'm searching balancing, 'cause it's a game.
So it's a matter to balance realism and gameplay.

No skull cracked, no horses crippled due to runned into a wall, no arm cutted due to weapons, and similar stuffs...
But at least some "balanced" consequences for bumping this and that and similar.


The "argument" in this topic is not "I want the game to be much more realistic for horsemen and not for infantry".
The argument is "I feel not balanced the fact horses can run over everything freely. So in the aim to balance this, I wanna suggest something which COULD also be realistic".

[Digglez]

1. When an horsemen runs over a metal armor infantry, the infantry should get (at least) a bit hurt. Infantry are not so resistent to a 1100lb animal crashing into them at full speed. Obviously they should also be (at least) a bit hurt when infantry hit an obstacle (a rock, an house, another infantry, so they both get hurt, this could also reflect an infantry falling over or tripping during a battle!).

Is your horse anorexic or something?  Warhorses are 1500-2k lbs

Warhorse hitting the average man is the equivalent of the average man hitting a 20lb infant.


How bout horses get an actually trample ability?  Once they've knocked someone down, they can pin them and continue stepping and kicking on them!  Sounds good to me

[Adrian_Cyrius]

Is your horse anorexic or something?  Warhorses are 1500-2k lbs

Warhorse hitting the average man is the equivalent of the average man hitting a 20lb infant.

Ok, go around hitting 20lb metal armored infat, then.
After return here and tell me if you didn't get hurty at least a bit.

Then again return back and hit twenty 20lb metal armored infants... and so on.