Author Topic: A suggestion to lower the amount of ranged without nerfing anything  (Read 2418 times)

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Offline Penitent

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Re: A suggestion to lower the amount of ranged without nerfing anything
« Reply #60 on: October 21, 2013, 10:17:11 pm »
+1
I guess people are complaining about ranged again still.

Here's a guide I made back in Feb of 2012.  It's in the beginners help and guides section, so any of you noobs beginners that need help with dealing with ranged should read it.

[GUIDE] How to Defend against Archers/Xbows and not Become a Statistic
http://forum.melee.org/guides/%28guide%29-how-to-defend-against-archers-xbows-and-not-become-a-statistic/msg378727/#msg378727

Offline Kafein

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Re: A suggestion to lower the amount of ranged without nerfing anything
« Reply #61 on: October 21, 2013, 11:01:29 pm »
0
I guess people are complaining about ranged again still.

Here's a guide I made back in Feb of 2012.  It's in the beginners help and guides section, so any of you noobs beginners that need help with dealing with ranged should read it.

[GUIDE] How to Defend against Archers/Xbows and not Become a Statistic
http://forum.melee.org/guides/%28guide%29-how-to-defend-against-archers-xbows-and-not-become-a-statistic/msg378727/#msg378727

I read it years ago, I even had a private course with Xenox about dodging. To the advanced player, all these things together don't help even a tenth as much as "learn to block" helps against melee. Noobs will get killed in melee and ranged equally because they suck. The problem emerges because it is possible to learn extremely effective means of defense against melee, but not against ranged.

Offline Penitent

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Re: A suggestion to lower the amount of ranged without nerfing anything
« Reply #62 on: October 21, 2013, 11:19:30 pm »
+2
I read it years ago, I even had a private course with Xenox about dodging. To the advanced player, all these things together don't help even a tenth as much as "learn to block" helps against melee. Noobs will get killed in melee and ranged equally because they suck. The problem emerges because it is possible to learn extremely effective means of defense against melee, but not against ranged.

Welp, I hardly ever get killed by ranged.

I can tell you with a serious face, in all honestly, offering myself as a living example:
"Get a shield" is just as useful for thwarting ranged as "learn to block" helps with melee.  :)

Edit:  It may be more accurate to say "learn to shield" since you DO have to use the shield with some intelligence and not just "have" it.

Offline Kafein

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Re: A suggestion to lower the amount of ranged without nerfing anything
« Reply #63 on: October 22, 2013, 09:57:49 am »
+1
Welp, I hardly ever get killed by ranged.

Maybe you just get killed by melee before. Maybe you are simply lucky and don't get shot from across the map and die in the middle of nowhere like stricken by lightning with enemies nowhere to be seen. Maybe you apply the retarded tips a majority of active archer lobbyists keep on regurgitating on these forums (you know, things like "hide behind imaginary cover for the entire round so instead of me having to kill you you play dead from the get go") and become a weight for you team just for the sake of being actually safe from ranged. I don't get killed that much by ranged personally either but what the hell at least when I get killed by melee in most cases I made a mistake somewhere. Ranged will get you no matter how you play, as there's no wrong and certainly no right way to go around it.

I can tell you with a serious face, in all honestly, offering myself as a living example:
"Get a shield" is just as useful for thwarting ranged as "learn to block" helps with melee.  :)

No it isn't. A shield won't protect you from shots in your back or while you fight in melee. A shield forbids you to dodge and cripples your movement speed. Additionally, blocking in melee stuns the attacker allowing you to retaliate. A shield won't even discourage ranged from shooting you since they very well know how ridiculously tighter than the models those things are (I'm speaking about the good looking rectangle shields, not the round ones).

Edit:  It may be more accurate to say "learn to shield" since you DO have to use the shield with some intelligence and not just "have" it.

Ho yeah of course, in case of emergency, apply "l2p nub !!!11" argument. I've been playing shielder for 3 years but I somehow don't know how to use it.

Offline Penitent

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Re: A suggestion to lower the amount of ranged without nerfing anything
« Reply #64 on: October 22, 2013, 05:03:20 pm »
+1
Maybe you just get killed by melee before. Maybe you are simply lucky and don't get shot from across the map and die in the middle of nowhere like stricken by lightning with enemies nowhere to be seen. Maybe you apply the retarded tips a majority of active archer lobbyists keep on regurgitating on these forums (you know, things like "hide behind imaginary cover for the entire round so instead of me having to kill you you play dead from the get go") and become a weight for you team just for the sake of being actually safe from ranged. I don't get killed that much by ranged personally either but what the hell at least when I get killed by melee in most cases I made a mistake somewhere. Ranged will get you no matter how you play, as there's no wrong and certainly no right way to go around it.

No it isn't. A shield won't protect you from shots in your back or while you fight in melee. A shield forbids you to dodge and cripples your movement speed. Additionally, blocking in melee stuns the attacker allowing you to retaliate. A shield won't even discourage ranged from shooting you since they very well know how ridiculously tighter than the models those things are (I'm speaking about the good looking rectangle shields, not the round ones).

Ho yeah of course, in case of emergency, apply "l2p nub !!!11" argument. I've been playing shielder for 3 years but I somehow don't know how to use it.

Ok, here is the problem.  I am trying to help you, not argue against your points.  I'm not just incredibly lucky and I don't weigh my team down (not most maps anyways :) ).  I'm not an archery lobbyist -- I'm a shielder for 12 gens.  I know a thing or two about this.  I eat archers for lunch.

I admit my guide is a bit bare-bones, but if you don't want help with surviving ranged, that's up to you.  I can tell you the solution is not to nerf them though.  That is for sure. 

Shields absolutely discourage ranged.  Have you played with a shield for any length of time?  Like more than one gen?  I see it every day, literally...the archer is aiming at me, sees my shield up, and turns the other way to shoot at someone else.  Either that, or he wastes an arrow on my forcefield.  Win-win for me.  It's a loss for the teamie who gets shot because he didn't want to wait for the shielder to go first.

Yes, I get shot sometimes.  It's especially tough when there are two or more archers in different areas so you get stuck in cross-fire (even then you can sometimes "time" them and block all arrows -- super fun!).  A shield is not god-mode, but it increases you chances of survival against ranged by leaps and bounds.  Even practice shields will ward away arrows while archers pick a softer target instead of wasting ammo.

Also, you don't just hide behind cover at the beginning of a round and hope the archers go away.  That tactic is useful if it's like 2 of you vs 3 archers at the end of the round.  Take cover and try to make them waste whatever ammo they have left.  OR if the enemy team is advancing with heavy archer cover, don't just run out into the field to meet them.  Also, if there is no cover, make your own.  If you aren't using all at least 3/4 slots you are hindering your team.

In the end, your strong disagreement and unwillingness to take advice from an old shield vet just shows the shortcomings of my guide.  I'll revise it and fill in some details there for you and everyone.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 05:29:15 pm by Garison »