Author Topic: Increase the speed and damage on polearms.  (Read 9535 times)

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Offline San

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Re: Increase the speed and damage on polearms.
« Reply #105 on: November 03, 2013, 05:22:24 am »
+1
We're still thinking about that. Urist just implemented a longer delay for thrusts that get blocked, so we need to wait and see how that plays out first. I suspect it won't really have too large of an impact, though to be safe, we don't want to do too much at once. I've wondered if maybe we should shorten the sweetspot duration from 30% to perhaps 20%(40-60%). With a shorter window, thrusts become slightly more difficult to use. You won't have as much time to wiggle therefore they will have to be used in a more straight forward manner. They would become much more predictable I'd imagine.

To address the damage issues, I am leaning more towards simply lowering the thrust damage on some weapons, rather than further changing animations.

I agree. In fact, I made a suggestion here: http://forum.melee.org/game-balance-discussion/serious-1h-stab-discussion/ where I suggest reverting back a lot of the artificial 1h stab buffs, since they made a lot more sense if one considered the swing and thrust equally important and I think we have reached that point. The stab seems fine now that its delay on blocks have been increased, but I believe some of the damages are too high. I think the side sword and scottish sword need to be looked at more closely since IMO they outperform the other 1h stab weapons in the long/short categories.

Offline Goretooth

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Re: Increase the speed and damage on polearms.
« Reply #106 on: November 03, 2013, 06:22:08 am »
+1
A chess board is only 8x8 cells, yours seems to be at least 12 in width.
Go fix the animations instead of counting chess board cells.
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Offline Tydeus

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Re: Increase the speed and damage on polearms.
« Reply #107 on: November 03, 2013, 06:39:24 am »
0
Go fix the animations instead of counting chess board cells.
Animations are fine. Swap your armor for something heavier, I'm sure that'll make you a better player.
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Offline Jona

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Re: Increase the speed and damage on polearms.
« Reply #108 on: November 03, 2013, 07:49:44 am »
-1
Animations are fine. Swap your armor for something heavier, I'm sure that'll make you a better player.

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Offline Goretooth

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Re: Increase the speed and damage on polearms.
« Reply #109 on: November 03, 2013, 08:48:23 am »
0
Animations are fine. Swap your armor for something heavier, I'm sure that'll make you a better player.
Pretty sure I've swapped the armor for a bow and leather a lot. I get plenty of kills with my current armor but why suggest I should get heavier armor?
« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 08:59:25 am by Goretooth »
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Offline Tydeus

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Re: Increase the speed and damage on polearms.
« Reply #110 on: November 03, 2013, 03:14:11 pm »
0
Pretty sure I've swapped the armor for a bow and leather a lot. I get plenty of kills with my current armor but why suggest I should get heavier armor?
Because you're Goretooth. Surely you're aware of what that means?

I agree. In fact, I made a suggestion here: http://forum.melee.org/game-balance-discussion/serious-1h-stab-discussion/ where I suggest reverting back a lot of the artificial 1h stab buffs, since they made a lot more sense if one considered the swing and thrust equally important and I think we have reached that point. The stab seems fine now that its delay on blocks have been increased, but I believe some of the damages are too high. I think the side sword and scottish sword need to be looked at more closely since IMO they outperform the other 1h stab weapons in the long/short categories.

Yeah, I'll read the thread and do some testing myself. Thankfully, I have Urist's damage reporter, so it shouldn't be too hard to get accurate information.
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Offline Goretooth

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Re: Increase the speed and damage on polearms.
« Reply #111 on: November 03, 2013, 10:30:04 pm »
0
Because you're Goretooth. Surely you're aware of what that means?

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Offline Rhaelys

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Re: Increase the speed and damage on polearms.
« Reply #112 on: November 04, 2013, 12:24:46 am »
+4
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Offline Grumbs

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Re: Increase the speed and damage on polearms.
« Reply #113 on: November 04, 2013, 01:37:53 pm »
0
We're still thinking about that. Urist just implemented a longer delay for thrusts that get blocked, so we need to wait and see how that plays out first. I suspect it won't really have too large of an impact, though to be safe, we don't want to do too much at once. I've wondered if maybe we should shorten the sweetspot duration from 30% to perhaps 20%(40-60%). With a shorter window, thrusts become slightly more difficult to use. You won't have as much time to wiggle therefore they will have to be used in a more straight forward manner. They would become much more predictable I'd imagine.

To address the damage issues, I am leaning more towards simply lowering the thrust damage on some weapons, rather than further changing animations. If I tweak animations again it'll likely be to the polearm thrust, where I better distinguish the arm extension part of the animation from the rest. One thing I really like about the current thrusts though, is that a 1her can quite easily contend with a 2her in the domain of thrusts, the reach disparity becomes much more manageable.

San, yes. Although to what extent I can't be entirely sure until cmp verifies whether the %damage modifies raw damage, or if it comes after the soak/reduce. If it comes with say, the speed bonus, in effect it will be more of an "abrupt drop".

Damage reduction on stabs would help. Personally though I think its a mistake to think each class needs to compete with each other in the same areas. You play to your strengths and exploit other's weaknesses, and as a shielder I don't think you have to compete with 2 handers for stabs anyway. You don't see people using the 2 hand stab to maintain distance so much, and a backpedaling 2 hander won't be moving faster than a shielder that puts up the shield just to block an attack. 1 handers don't really have a reach problem imo even with just right swing and overhead and they excel with their swings in medium range. If kicks are an issue i'd take a look at kicks, but buffing 1 handers across the board just because of 2 hand stab is not necessary. You could have fixed the problems with 2 hand stab even first

You have to consider what a shield brings to the fight as well rather than just looking at the damage/reach

Shorter 4 direction poles got nerfed kinda hard with 1 hand buffs too
« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 01:42:31 pm by Grumbs »
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Offline Mr_Oujamaflip

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Re: Increase the speed and damage on polearms.
« Reply #114 on: November 04, 2013, 01:53:10 pm »
0
I can't believe I just read this shit.

Offline Grumbs

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Re: Increase the speed and damage on polearms.
« Reply #115 on: November 04, 2013, 01:58:13 pm »
0
You mean me or the whole thread?
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Offline Jona

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Re: Increase the speed and damage on polearms.
« Reply #116 on: November 04, 2013, 02:16:16 pm »
0
I can't believe I just read this shit.

You mean me or the whole thread?

Probably means the whole thread.  Whole lotta derping went on in here. It IS the chamber of tears after all.
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Offline Goretooth

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Re: Increase the speed and damage on polearms.
« Reply #117 on: November 04, 2013, 02:25:21 pm »
+2
Having used polearms for years and switching to 2h lately the difference in balance is huge and needs to be addressed along with the animations.  Using the same build it takes more hits with a bec to kill someone over using a Danish great sword and to me that doesn't make a whole lot of sense since the bec is all pierce damage and most people i'm using against are using more armor now then in the past.
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Offline MURDERTRON

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Re: Increase the speed and damage on polearms.
« Reply #118 on: November 05, 2013, 05:12:04 pm »
+2
Change pole arm stab animation to the one used at 0:20, and we should be good to go.
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Offline Sauce

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Re: Increase the speed and damage on polearms.
« Reply #119 on: December 16, 2013, 07:48:48 pm »
+2
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« Last Edit: April 11, 2014, 10:31:02 pm by Sauce »