Knockdown and kickers

[MURDERTRON]

When hitting someone who is kicking with a knockdown weapon or a nudge, it should automatically cause a knockdown.  Knockdown was nerfed a bit with the addition of the roll.  Kick was buffed a bit and people are complaining it has too much range.  This change would help even things out and it realistic.

[BlueKnight]

DON'T BUFF KNOCKDOWN! Also there are barely any people who roll after being knocked down. I managed to roll just a few times on EU1, some of them didn't even resque me from getting hit anyway.

Knockdown is already annoying as fuck.

[San]

I think I'd be happy with 20% increased damage if you get hit while kicking. On the flipside, depending on when your kick hits, you could get a held strike to your opponent's face. Most attacks that I endure after getting kicked are nearly 1.5x-2x damage than usual, so it sounds fair to me. IIRC one of the nudges already counters kicks. The knockdown thing does make sense realistically but it only applies to so few weapons and sounds annoying gameplay-wise if it's a 100% chance.

[MURDERTRON]

I think I'd be happy with 20% increased damage if you get hit while kicking. On the flipside, depending on when your kick hits, you could get a held strike to your opponent's face. Most attacks that I endure after getting kicked are nearly 1.5x-2x damage than usual, so it sounds fair to me. IIRC one of the nudges already counters kicks. The knockdown thing does make sense realistically but it only applies to so few weapons and sounds annoying gameplay-wise if it's a 100% chance.

Why do you get hit harder after being kicked?

DON'T BUFF KNOCKDOWN! Also there are barely any people who roll after being knocked down. I managed to roll just a few times on EU1, some of them didn't even resque me from getting hit anyway.

Knockdown is already annoying as fuck.

Everyone on NA1 rolls.  People I've never heard of before are rolling.  Sometimes I wonder if they are playing night crawlers.

[San]

Leaving yourself open in an awkward position.

[MURDERTRON]

Leaving yourself open in an awkward position.

I still don't get what you're saying.  Do you mean they get a free hit and can have gods footwork if they choose to?  Or they can have a held attack?  Both?

[BlueKnight]

I still don't get what you're saying.  Do you mean they get a free hit and can have gods footwork if they choose to?  Or they can have a held attack?  Both?

hitting in the head I guess

[Canuck]

Well as far as I know San is constantly moving to negate/counter peoples attacks (properly) taking advantage of hitboxes and speed bonus. He's got great footwork. So when he's kicked and somebody gets a free hit on his face it's for full damage rather than the nothing that he usually feels. I guess

[San]

I still don't get what you're saying.  Do you mean they get a free hit and can have gods footwork if they choose to?  Or they can have a held attack?  Both?

Oh, I thought you wanted me to list some reason why you would get hurt more if you get hit while kicking (so I was a bit confused). After looking at it again, I completely misread.

Without factoring in speed bonus:
-You get hit in the middle of the swing instead of early/late where it's weaker
-You can hit the head
-You can slightly hold

You can just line yourself up for a pretty nice hit, so the reward is a bit better than a normal swing.

[Phew]

Kick just needs its persistent 60 degree staggercone adjusted into a ~15 degree cone that only persists while the foot is actually moving forward.

Knockdown needs to be more situation-dependent; a held strike to the head or legs should have a very high knockdown chance, but a near-glance to the torso shouldn't knockdown as much as it does now. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that torso hits shouldn't knockdown at all, at least with 1h blunt weapons.

But guess what? Any changes like the ones above require WSE programming, which only cmp can do, and cmp is busy with the new game. So enjoy over-the-top kicks and knockdown for the remaining life of the mod.

[oohillac]

which only cmp can do

I doubt this.

The issue with kicks is that usually it is so obvious when someone is going to kick that any nerfs to their current form will render them entirely useless.  If you get kicked it is absolutely your fault for not seeing the ploy and adjusting your footwork/movement.  Sort of like it's your fault for getting shot if you run at an archer in a straight line.

Any more knockdown mechanics would be awful, losing control of your character to some RNG mechanic is lame (in a perfect world/engine, only certain striking areas would knockdown).  Getting a free hit on a bad kick is punishment enough.  Remember when people could block and kick?  Then your suggestion would make sense.

Roll is OP in my books because I laugh so fucking hard anytime I see one that I usually fail to capitalize on the downed opponent.