Steel Pick [POLL]

[Penitent]

Once a feared sight on the battlefield, this little sharpie has had speed and damage nerfed in the past.  With 1h swords now having a nice stab, and with the significant benefits of knockdown on blunt weapons...I think its safe to say that the steel pick (and perhaps other picks) is underpowered compared to other top-tier 1h. 

I propose increasing its speed OR damage by +1 to balance it internally with other 1h weapons.

I'm posting this in relation to a different thread where the following was being discussed:

64/65 cm reach without a thrust is really short. All of your attacks are within kick range, and these weapons do about the same damage as a Espada thrust (which has almost 3 times the reach!)...

 

The only heavy steel pick users I knew about were me and kinngrimm before it got nerfed. It's still good, but it's overshadowed now since the decreased speed makes them too comparable to hammers without knockdown. The pick used to be too good because the swords were too weak, but that situation has changed now.

[Phew]

I voted +1 speed; there's no reason the picks should be slower than the Spathovaklion (which has more reach AND knockdown).

If you are one of those people complaining about the new 1h thrust, buffing picks/axes/3d swords is one way to cut down on 1h thrusts. 1h balance is a bit too skewed toward blunt weapons and thrust swords right now, partially due to the recent over-nerfing of the picks.

[Nightmare798]

great, now they will be able to spam backhands even faster.

i voted no, those weapons have pierce on swing, no need to buff them more.

[San]

I think it should be nerfed in power a bit more, but have 99 speed. 99speed+30pierce.

[Nightmare798]

I think it should be nerfed in power a bit more, but have 99 speed. 99speed+30pierce.

i wonder why should a pick swing as fast as fencing sword...

[Grumbs]

The fact people are seriously talking about buffing Steel Pick (34 pierce) shows how out of whack 1 handers are now.

[Penitent]

i wonder why should a pick swing as fast as fencing sword...

There are no fencing swords in this game (rapier, epee, etc.).  There is a side-sword which is a cut-and-thrust type weapon.

For balance reasons, it makes sense for a pick to swing as fast or faster because it is at a severe reach disadvantage.  In fact, it is one of the most severe reach disadvantages in the game.

If you are talking about realism, like it seems like you may be, you should post in the realism thread.

(click to show/hide)

Realistically, it also makes sense for a thin, light pick to swing as fast or faster as a fencing sword since the weight is closer to the hand.  It's the same reason its faster to swing a short baseball bat compared to a longer baseball bat.

The fact people are seriously talking about buffing Steel Pick (34 pierce) shows how out of whack 1 handers are now.

The steel pick is 31 pierce, not 34. 
Yes, all weapons become more powerful when loomed, but I don't believe that's what the balance is based on.

[Gurnisson]

Minor buff to Steel Pick and a bigger buff to Military Pick which is quite useless stat-wise. That or nerf 1h maces.

[Grumbs]

Of course the balance is based on loomed, you think it should be balanced assuming people use the +0 version?

[DaruviansUnmutedAccount]

Anyone who says steel pick is fine or needs more nerfs, how about you specialize into one hand, pick up a steel pick and try to win a duel against any good 2h or polearm who can massively outreach your weapon, do more damage than you, and have the total advantage for when to throw kicks--they never have to step inside your kick radius to hit you, but you ALWAYS have to step in their kick radius to hit them.

I love the steel pick, use it nearly every time I play 1H on my main (which is rare anymore because even though I love the playstyle of 1H, I recognize that it is just easier for Strategus to play 2H because you get so much more power with so much less effort as a STR crutch 2H). I even use the steel pick as my primary cavalry weapon, something I feel that is pretty unique to me... but when it comes to duels, even I will admit that the steel pick is a piece of shit in a 1v1 situation against a 2H or polearm, let alone an agi 1H with a now super-buffed thrusting sword.

[Grumbs]

And just why do you think 1hand with shield should be 100% balanced with pole and 2 hand in 1v1? You get the utility of a shield which is better in group fights and constant protection from ranged. Not that i'm saying that a good 1 hand/shield guy won't beat guys in 1v1 against other classes

[DaruviansUnmutedAccount]

I'm talking about duels not using a shield. Why should 1H automatically be forced to use a shield?

This is duels we're talking about. If you use a shield in duels you're a cunt.

Additionally, the only people who believe that shields are actually effective against ranged are ranged.

[Grumbs]

Weapons should not be balanced based on duels. The game isn't about dueling guys imo

1 Handers have to be balanced assuming they are used alongside a shield because thats their primary function and use ingame. If you want to talk about 1 hand balance without a shield then thats a whole other topic

[Nightmare798]

There are no fencing swords in this game (rapier, epee, etc.).  There is a side-sword which is a cut-and-thrust type weapon.

For balance reasons, it makes sense for a pick to swing as fast or faster because it is at a severe reach disadvantage.  In fact, it is one of the most severe reach disadvantages in the game.

If you are talking about realism, like it seems like you may be, you should post in the realism thread.

(click to show/hide)

Realistically, it also makes sense for a thin, light pick to swing as fast or faster as a fencing sword since the weight is closer to the hand.  It's the same reason its faster to swing a short baseball bat compared to a longer baseball bat.

The steel pick is 31 pierce, not 34. 
Yes, all weapons become more powerful when loomed, but I don't believe that's what the balance is based on.

sidesword is a fencing sword, and as for espada, i never actually seen this sword irl, but if it is indeed real, then i think that it would be usable for fencing.

EDIT: it doesnt matter if a weapon has both cutting and thrusting capabilities. fencing is a style of handling. practically any 1h sword can be used for fencing, but those two weapons would be much better choice than about ANY sword.

[DaruviansUnmutedAccount]

Weapons should not be balanced based on duels. The game isn't about dueling guys imo

1 Handers have to be balanced assuming they are used alongside a shield because thats their primary function and use ingame. If you want to talk about 1 hand balance without a shield then thats a whole other topic

You're a cunt.