Author Topic: Guns, Guns, and more Guns, Hosted by Inbred Redneck AntiBlitz Ameritrash  (Read 12939 times)

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Offline Xant

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Re: Guns, Guns, and more Guns, Hosted by Inbred Redneck AntiBlitz Ameritrash
« Reply #150 on: October 04, 2013, 04:57:01 pm »
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My guess is that Xant is considerably more proficient in violence.
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Offline Son Of Odin

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Re: Guns, Guns, and more Guns, Hosted by Inbred Redneck AntiBlitz Ameritrash
« Reply #151 on: October 04, 2013, 05:12:05 pm »
+3
My guess is that Gnjus' nose would act as a shield and bend all the bullets away.
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Offline Lt_Anders

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Re: Guns, Guns, and more Guns, Hosted by Inbred Redneck AntiBlitz Ameritrash
« Reply #152 on: October 04, 2013, 05:15:28 pm »
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I think this is pretty interesting in the grand debate on Gun Ownership and Violent Crime:
http://blog.skepticallibertarian.com/2013/01/12/fact-checking-ben-swann-is-the-uk-really-5-times-more-violent-than-the-us/

Technically England/Wales has more VIOLENT crime(when you do a near 1:1 comparison) but lower murder rate from guns. I'd assume this is fairly similar Continent wide.
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Offline [ptx]

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Re: Guns, Guns, and more Guns, Hosted by Inbred Redneck AntiBlitz Ameritrash
« Reply #153 on: October 04, 2013, 05:49:39 pm »
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I can't guarantee that in case of, lets say.....ptx, xant and I meeting in a pub and getting drunk, talking about variety of subjects and presumably arguing, I wouldn't draw my concealed weapon and wax Xant if he starts getting on my nerves, especially if he's bigger and stronger then me. It's not that I want to shoot the hell out of him but I think alcohol + his charming personality could contribute to me ending up serving some serious time.
My guess is that i would consume twice the amount of beers in the same amount of time and would then proceed to drunkenly hit on the hot chick behind the bar, making everyone ashamed enough to go home.
Boozing for peace!

I think this is pretty interesting in the grand debate on Gun Ownership and Violent Crime:
http://blog.skepticallibertarian.com/2013/01/12/fact-checking-ben-swann-is-the-uk-really-5-times-more-violent-than-the-us/

Technically England/Wales has more VIOLENT crime(when you do a near 1:1 comparison) but lower murder rate from guns. I'd assume this is fairly similar Continent wide.
UK is somewhat infamous for its violent crime rate in the EU. I assume the crime rate EU-wise is actually lower than that.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2013, 05:54:27 pm by [ptx] »

Offline Tibe

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Re: Guns, Guns, and more Guns, Hosted by Inbred Redneck AntiBlitz Ameritrash
« Reply #154 on: October 04, 2013, 06:12:59 pm »
-1
Not sure why dying by knife is preferrable to dying by a gunshot wound.
Its not about preferable dying mate. A random fucker could end your life simply by hiding in the bushes and taking careful aim while you wank off unexpected or something. Not to mention if there are people around you and the dude has shit aim, there is gonna be innocent bystanders. Someone charging you with a knife you can mostly see ahead and with a couple of self-defencecourses you can turn the situation around. Unlike with firearms. If one guy pulls his gun first and starts randomly spraying bullets all you have is luck unless you can bend bullets.

Offline Xant

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Re: Guns, Guns, and more Guns, Hosted by Inbred Redneck AntiBlitz Ameritrash
« Reply #155 on: October 04, 2013, 06:41:02 pm »
+2
Guns are not the problem.

United States' homicide rate per 100,000 inhabitants is 4,7. Russia's is 10,2, even though handguns are completely prohibited and long guns are strongly restricted.

4,7 is a high number compared to European countries: it is, however, an average gotten from 50 states with wildly varying homicide rates. Hawaii has 0,5 (half of Western Europe's average) and Louisiana has 10,54 (slightly higher than Russia) - and the average is gotten from these and the other 48 less extreme states.

Hawaii does not have a problem with violence, Louisiana does. To get relevant numbers, one mustn't look at the United States on the whole, but as it is: an union of different states, cultures and  people.

Switzerland has one of the most liberal gun policies of Western Europe, and yet one of the smallest homicide rates: 0,7. In the United Kingdom, all handguns and semi-automatic rifles are illegal, but its rate (1,2) is distinctly bigger.

United States has 89 firearms per one hundred citizens, and 3,2 homicides per 100,000 inhabitants are committed with those. Mexico has 15 firearms per hundred citizens, but 22,7 homicides per 100,000 inhabitants are committed with those.

The facts are that the presence of firearms does not have an effect on the amount of homicides, only on how they are committed.

The homicide rates per state are as follows:

(click to show/hide)

The north-east and west are the most peaceful, the mid-west a bit more restless, and the south the most violent by a good margin. 43,6% of murders were committed in the south (15 states).

Out of 17-29 year-olds, there are twice more black victims than white.

Now, is there a correlation between gun laws and homicides?

In Alaska, Arizona, Vermont and Wyoming, you can carry a loaded gun both openly and concealed without a permit. These states receive six stars (******).

After those come states in which open carry is unrestricted, but concealed carry requires a permit that officials have to issue: Idaho, Nevada, New Mexico, Montana, South Dakota, Kentucky, Virginia, Colorado, Washington, Oregon, Nebraska, Kansas, Missouri, Louisiana, Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, Maine, North Carolina. They receive five stars (*****).

Third, states where you need a permit for open carry, and concealed carry is "shall-issue." (A Shall-Issue jurisdiction is one that requires a permit to carry a concealed handgun, but where the granting of such permits is subject only to meeting determinate criteria laid out in the law; the granting authority has no discretion in the awarding of the permits, and there is no requirement of the applicant to demonstrate "good cause".): Utah, North Dakota, Minnesota, Oklahoma, Mississippi, Tennessee, Georgia, Indiana, Iowa, Connecticut and Delaware. These receive four stars (****).

Fourth, states where open carry requires a permit, and concealed carry is "may-issue": Massachusetts and Rhode Island. These receive three stars. (***).

Texas, Arkansas, South Carolina and Florida are "shall-issue" states where open carry is not permitted. They receive two stars. (**).

California and New York are "may-issue" states that do not permit open carry. Hawaii, Maryland and New Jersey completely disallow concealed carry, but give permits for open carry. These receive one star. (*).

Illinois and District of Columbia completely ban both concealed and open carry, and do not receive a single star. States with an "assault weapon ban" also receive a minus (-).

(click to show/hide)

As we can see, finding a clear correlation is difficult. Both the most peaceful state Hawaii and the murder capital Washington DC have harsh gun laws in effect.

In conclusion, gun laws do not seem to have any effect on homicide rates in the United States. The same correlation can be seen internationally.

Someone charging you with a knife you can mostly see ahead and with a couple of self-defencecourses you can turn the situation around. Unlike with firearms.
This deserves nothing more than a facepalm. You do not know anything about the subject, that much is clear. "Self-defence courses." Jesus Christ, have mercy. I'd much rather face a firearm than a knife in close quarters, and others with actual experience in these things often agree.
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Offline [ptx]

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Re: Guns, Guns, and more Guns, Hosted by Inbred Redneck AntiBlitz Ameritrash
« Reply #156 on: October 04, 2013, 06:44:57 pm »
-1
Just in case you've missed it, the "discussion" has not been about USA gun control laws, but rather whether or not EU gun control laws are medieval. :rolleyes:

Offline Xant

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Re: Guns, Guns, and more Guns, Hosted by Inbred Redneck AntiBlitz Ameritrash
« Reply #157 on: October 04, 2013, 06:46:42 pm »
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Just in case you've missed it, the "discussion" has not been about USA gun control laws, but rather whether or not EU gun control laws are medieval. :rolleyes:
Uh, nope.
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Offline [ptx]

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Re: Guns, Guns, and more Guns, Hosted by Inbred Redneck AntiBlitz Ameritrash
« Reply #158 on: October 04, 2013, 06:47:24 pm »
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Uh, yeap.

Offline Xant

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Re: Guns, Guns, and more Guns, Hosted by Inbred Redneck AntiBlitz Ameritrash
« Reply #159 on: October 04, 2013, 06:48:47 pm »
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I don't know what you've been discussing, but that's not what I've been discussing. I'm not talking to or about AntiBlitz's posts.
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Offline Lt_Anders

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Re: Guns, Guns, and more Guns, Hosted by Inbred Redneck AntiBlitz Ameritrash
« Reply #160 on: October 04, 2013, 06:52:52 pm »
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Hey XANT where's the Info on Florida? You're missing 2 states in that data acquisition...which is pretty weird? Why so...

Also the Firearm per citizen is misleading. Just look at Antiblitz. He's got like 20 guns. That's why that statistic is so high. Actual gun owners (households) are closer to 50%< since 1 owner can own a full armies worth of guns and ammunition.

Also your 2 star states are amongst the easiest states to acquire firearms. In 30 minutes, I can buy whatever gun legally allowed, if I have the money at any time.  Just note that. Easy to buy, but not as easy to go around/carry.

The concealed Permit given by Florida is almost a "Nationwide Standard" as far as concealed carry goes.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2013, 06:59:43 pm by Lt_Anders »
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Offline Xant

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Re: Guns, Guns, and more Guns, Hosted by Inbred Redneck AntiBlitz Ameritrash
« Reply #161 on: October 04, 2013, 07:05:15 pm »
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Hey XANT where's the Info on Florida? You're missing 2 states in that data acquisition...which is pretty weird? Why so...

Also the Firearm per citizen is misleading. Just look at Antiblitz. He's got like 20 guns. That's why that statistic is so high. Actual gun owners (households) are closer to 50%< since 1 owner can own a full armies worth of guns and ammunition.

Also your 2 star states are amongst the easiest states to acquire firearms. In 30 minutes, I can buy whatever gun legally allowed, if I have the money at any time.  Just note that. Easy to buy, but not as easy to go around/carry.

The concealed Permit given by Florida is almost a "Nationwide Standard" as far as concealed carry goes.
Don't know why Florida wasn't included, it'd be 5,2 **.

As for firearm per citizen, that's how it is in all countries. Finland has a very high firearms/citizen ratio, but relatively few people own firearms.

The star rating system is not about ease of acquisition.

(click to show/hide)
Where L means you need a permit to acquire a long gun, if you only need a permit to acquire a handgun -L, if both require a permit LL. If neither are restricted, --.

Note: these statistics are not current (they are from a year+ ago) and they'll be a bit different in most recent reports.
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Offline AntiBlitz

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Re: Guns, Guns, and more Guns, Hosted by Inbred Redneck AntiBlitz Ameritrash
« Reply #162 on: October 04, 2013, 07:25:58 pm »
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Also the Firearm per citizen is misleading. Just look at Antiblitz. He's got like 20 guns. That's why that statistic is so high. Actual gun owners (households) are closer to 50%< since 1 owner can own a full armies worth of guns and ammunition.

The concealed Permit given by Florida is almost a "Nationwide Standard" as far as concealed carry goes.

what do you mean by this?  if you have a permit in Flordia, this doesnt mean you can carry in another state, their laws will not allow it, unless they have some sort of state to state agreement.  Unless you meant how you obtain the permit is almost a standard nationwide then, well kind of, but not really.  Getting a permit in Florida is quite easy, as is, in a few other states, however some states like mine, you must prove that you have a need to carry it, you have to explain that you are carrying large sums of money, or maybe you are leaving from high crime area establishments at night, or something along those lines.

Well put Paul. Well put indeed.

So I dunno man. You can be cool and technological 21st century people and shoot eachother with firearms, if that makes you feel any better. This is the part of life where we would like to stick to medieval, as you put it.

why do you think the police carry weapons now?  is it because those clubs just arent enough? yes, thats exactly it, they are being "outgunned" by people who are bringing firearms into the country, while you dont have a gun, the people who want one do.


I didn't know Ohio was in Europe. Guess i should brush up on my geography knowledge.

And no, not even drug dealers generally have guns here. They settle their scores and shit by beating the other side up.

its not necessarily the point of geography and it being in Ohio, but was this families policy the same as your opinions?  they didnt like guns, and maybe owning one would have changed this outcome.

drug dealers do have guns, go google it, please.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10163167/No-lawful-justification-for-police-killing-report-finds.html
"Three guns were found in Mr Rodney’s car including one that was loaded and ready to fire. "

PC Brian John Bishop was a police officer who was shot in the head by an armed robber in Frinton-on-Sea, Essex, on 22 August 1984, four months after the murder of WPC Yvonne Fletcher. He died from his injuries five days later in a London hospital.

PC Phillip John Walters was a police officer in London's Metropolitan Police Service who was shot dead while investigating a domestic disturbance in Ilford, east London, on 18 April 1995. Walters responded to reports of a domestic disturbance at a flat in Empress Avenue, Ilford, with his colleague Sergeant Derek Shepherd, who he had partnered in the job for the eighteen months since he entered service. Upon arrival, the pair discovered three men beating the male occupant of the property; it later transpired that they were hired to beat the man who was the former boyfriend of a woman. As the suspects attempted to escape, one produced a Smith & Wesson handgun and shot Walters in the chest as he was tackled by the officer. The bullet penetrated Walters' heart and he died later in hospital.

Sharon Beshenivsky was the 89th police officer and the sixth female officer to die in the line of duty in England and Wales, the second female officer to be fatally shot (the first was Yvonne Fletcher in an incident involving the Libyan Embassy in 1984), and the first female officer to die in an ordinary gun crime. Beshenivsky was a West Yorkshire Police constable shot dead by a criminal gang during a robbery in Bradford, West Yorkshire, England. Another police officer, PC Teresa Millburn, was also shot in the incident, receiving serious wounds to the chest. PC Millburn had joined the force less than two years earlier.

Fiona Bone, 32, and Nicola Hughes, 23, were on routine patrol on 18 September 2012 when they were sent to Abbey Gardens, Mottram in Longdendale, near Hyde, at about 11 am, following a report of a burglary.[8] This was the result of a 999 emergency telephone call from a member of the public, which was later found to be the work of Dale Cregan, who had led the officers into a trap.[9] After arriving at the house where the burglary had been reported the officers came under attack, with 32 gunshots being fired from a Glock pistol within 31 seconds, and one M75 hand grenade being used.[1][2][10] One officer died at the scene while the other was badly wounded and died later in hospital.[11]
Arrest of killer

yep no guns in Yurop....

Ruth Ellis, a London nightclub manager, shot and killed her fiance David Blakely outside a Hampstead public house where she surrendered to police upon their arrival. Despite evidence of the involvement of another lover, Desmond Cussen, she was tried and convicted of murder for which she would be the last woman to be executed in the United Kingdom.

Moat, armed with a sawn-off shotgun, shot three people two days after being released from prison: his ex-girlfriend Samantha Stobbart, her new partner Chris Brown, and police officer David Rathband. Brown was killed, while Rathband was permanently blinded. Seriously injured Stobbart also remained hospitalised. After six days on the run, Moat was recognised by police leading to a standoff. After nearly six hours of negotiation, Moat shot himself.

The White House Farm murders took place near the English village of Tolleshunt D'Arcy, Essex, on 7 August 1985, when Nevill Bamber, a farmer and magistrate, his wife June, their adoptive daughter, Sheila Caffell, and her six-year-old twin sons, were shot and killed during the night inside the Bambers' farmhouse

The body of 13-year-old paperboy Carl Bridgewater was found in the house of a local elderly couple who had been out for the day. It was presumed by police that Bridgewater had disturbed a burglar while delivering a newspaper to their home and was dragged into their livingroom where he was killed with a shotgun blast to the head. The following year, a group of men - widely referred to in the press as the Bridgewater Four - were convicted of the crime, three for murder and a fourth for manslaughter.

On 9 July 1996, in a country lane in Chillenden, Kent, Lin Russell, aged forty-five, her two daughters, six-year-old Megan and nine-year-old Josie and their dog Lucy, were tied up and savagely beaten with a hammer in a robbery attempt. Lin, Megan and their dog Lucy were killed but, despite appalling head injuries, Josie survived and went on to make an excellent recovery. Josie's recovery and the way she and her father, Shaun Russell, coped with the aftermath of the tragedy were the subject of a BBC documentary. Father and daughter had by then moved to the Nantlle Valley in Gwynedd.[2]  No gun, but it might have stopped this.

The murder of 11-year-old Rhys Milford Jones occurred on 22 August 2007 in Liverpool, England, when he was fatally shot in the neck. An 18-year-old youth, Sean Mercer, received a life sentence for the murder in December 2008.

£26.5 million is stolen from the Donegall Square headquarters of Northern Bank by a large armed gang.

6 armed robbers broke into the Brink's-MAT warehouse in Heathrow Airport and got away with £26 million in gold bullion with the inside help of security guard Anthony Black.

A shootout between unarmed London constables and a group of Latvian anarchists left three officers and one anarchist dead. The authorities then laid siege to the anarchists' safehouse, meeting fierce resistance from the three anarchists inside. A fire broke out after a six-hour battle and, while the bodies of two anarchists were found, the third was not located.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2013, 07:30:16 pm by AntiBlitz »

Offline Xant

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Re: Guns, Guns, and more Guns, Hosted by Inbred Redneck AntiBlitz Ameritrash
« Reply #163 on: October 04, 2013, 07:41:28 pm »
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A shootout between unarmed London constables and a group of Latvian anarchists left three officers and one anarchist dead.
Way to go, Latvian anarchists.
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Offline [ptx]

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Re: Guns, Guns, and more Guns, Hosted by Inbred Redneck AntiBlitz Ameritrash
« Reply #164 on: October 04, 2013, 07:44:36 pm »
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What you missed is how you proved yourself flat out wrong in that post: "I bet ya those women wished they could protect themselves, unfortunately they are stuck in the medieval times, fending off this armed intruder with fucking kitchen knives, congratulations real fucking nice policy."
I guess they couldn't afterall, regardless of the loose gun control laws in the country they lived in. /facepalm

As to the rest:
Oh, wow, did you just find every single gun crime since the seventies? That proved what, exactly?

And no, drug dealers and most criminal elements, IN GENERAL, do not have guns here. It's why they keep stabbing and beating each other up, rather than shooting.

Let me try and make it simple for ya: EU - few guns, both for civilians and criminals -> negligible risk of getting shot and killed -> less lethal crime = better.

You have a skewed sense of technological advancement equaling armed shootouts between civilians and criminals.
Way to go, Latvian anarchists.
fuck the police!