Crossbow heirlooming.

[Native_ATS]

Crossbows don't have any PD or PS bonus, therefore they need a bigger base damage buff.

ya buff the weapon that cost no skill points or wpf to use.... that seems fair 

[Siiem]

ya buff the weapon that cost no skill points or wpf to use.... that seems fair 

From heirlooming you idiot.

[Radix]

i see xbowmen voice here now....

i am off

You all still don't understand... read my posts again and repost.

BALANC i want that for xbows!!!!!!!!

and nOO they are not balanced.

lol so what did u expect??? to make a cry post to nerf xbows and u expected xbowers to stay away form commenting on it, and now u are upset cose they dare to comment ur opinion and surely as an xbowers they can not tell anything about it??(sarcasm)

[Rebelyell]

but in your opinion xbow always need buff...
dude look at weak throwers with max 8 axe in bag...
 

Only 15 str req... so yo can have 24 agi and 8 wm .... (aroun 180wpf)

it make xbow fast....
and holy shit i want balance it

1) more str req 18 (in my opinion)
2) skill for xbow with 2 slots (xbow is weapon of pesants but that best should have some better req)
and some thing els what can make you better faster ect(with xbow)

and less damange(100p is from tincan age)
in my opinion 95-90 on mw(arbalest)
bolts buff is fine.

and spee of reload should be based on str Xbow skill and req from xbow


and give back my 1 troll point XD

[Darkkarma]

but in your opinion xbow always need buff...
dude look at weak throwers with max 8 axe in bag...
 

Only 15 str req... so yo can have 24 agi and 8 wm .... (aroun 180wpf)

it make xbow fast....
and holy shit i want balance it

1) more str req 18 (in my opinion)
2) skill for xbow with 2 slots (xbow is weapon of pesants but that best should have some better req)
and some thing els what can make you better faster ect(with xbow)

and less damange(100p is from tincan age)
in my opinion 95-90 on mw(arbalest)
bolts buff is fine.

and spee of reload should be based on str Xbow skill and req from xbow


and give back my 1 troll point XD

Take away the fact that rain makes it lose about 15% of it's effectiveness and i'd agree.

Also, throwing is still very much viable. However, it definitely is a shell of it's former self, but only because throwing was so ridiculously good before that last patch.

[Banok]

the + accuracy means NOTHING. all xbows are virtually same accuracy even at different modifiers. when will people learn this :/

but yeah I agree, they are op. s'why I hierloomed a arberlest. but I dont really enjoy playing it that much so I'm all for it being nerfed.

[Siiem]

the + accuracy means NOTHING. all xbows are virtually same accuracy even at different modifiers. when will people learn this :/

but yeah I agree, they are op. s'why I hierloomed a arberlest. but I dont really enjoy playing it that much so I'm all for it being nerfed.

Lol, you are all for the arbalest beeing nerfed but pre-patch you heirloomd your barmace so it reliably crushed through blocks.

[Shablagoo]

Arbalest needs 15 str, Longbow needs 18 str and 6 PD, yet with these stats longbow damage is lower, reload is only a wee bit faster (I might be off on that, correct me if I'm wrong).

It takes forever to reload.  I imagine you can get off like 6 or 7 shots with a bow before getting a second with the arbalest.

[Native_ATS]

Take away the fact that rain makes it lose about 15% of it's effectiveness and i'd agree.

Also, throwing is still very much viable. However, it definitely is a shell of it's former self, but only because throwing was so ridiculously good before that last patch.

no... just no
go shot your self for telling me that throwing is still viable....

[Darkkarma]

no... just no
go shot your self for telling me that throwing is still viable....

Oh woe is me, I can't one shot anyone anymore if I want to have a large stack of throwable items! Oh but wait, the mid tier throwables still do a good amount of damage, can be thrown on the move, can be stacked in good numbers and still have the best rate of fire of any ranged weapon! Sorry they aren't a total skill compensator anymore man, but they are in a good place right now. I know you don't agree, but you're also the one that thought crossbows were actually easier to use and where better off then throwing before the 2 slot patch.

[Radix]

Xbows are the least effective ranged weapon right now.

[Cup1d]

I've got foot crossbower char for once. Standart build 15\24, 160 in xbow 85 in 2H. Nonheirloomed Sniper and Steel bolts. IMHO this build was too good to be balanced. Yes, I was an archer for 20 gens, so I know how to shoot people. But with 3,5-1 overall k\d with this char, all I can say - xbow bonuses from heirloom is too good to be true.

And you can be effective without:
+13 to damage,
+1 ammo,
+ 3 to accuracy
+ 3 to weapon speed
+ 4 to projectile speed

comparison with bow
+ 5 to damage
+ 2 ammo
+ 2 to accuracy
+ 2 to weapon speed
+ 3 to projectile speed

And there no sense to comparison this with throwing, because in case of throwing you have only projectile, there no weapon+projectile system. But well:

Throwing
+ 4 to damage
+ 0 ammo
+ 0 to accuracy
+ 1 to weapon speed
+ 0 to projectile speed



Also, there is no requirement for heirlooming xbows. At 31 level 95% of players have 15 str. You can be cavalry\infantry\thrower\professional peasant - but you can heirloom top-tier xbow.

[MadJackMcMad]

I've got foot crossbower char for once. Standart build 15\24, 160 in xbow 85 in 2H. Nonheirloomed Sniper and Steel bolts. IMHO this build was too good to be balanced. Yes, I was an archer for 20 gens, so I know how to shoot people. But with 3,5-1 overall k\d with this char, all I can say - xbow bonuses from heirloom is too good to be true.

I have this build also, and it is incredibly situational.  k/d's are a poor indicator for class balance.  I have had a high k/d for every class I have played simply because I work out how to get the most out of them.  The 85/160 crossbowman with an Arbalest's performance depends greatly on the map and game mode in question (defending on siege being the best).  For maximum efficiency you must aim at targets unaware of you, for you are unlikely to hit a target that is aware and will dodge.  You must essentially be a sniper, shoot, skirmish, hide.  And what are snipers good for except good k/ds?  %80 of my Crossbow kills are unaware of my presence or location. 

For example one melee with a shield is aware of you and enclosing at 10m.  To his right, there is another melee running the other direction at a ninety degree angle.  Commonly I will shoot the ninety degree enemy, most likely not killing him unless he has been hit before or is wearing a shirt, then focus on the one targeting me.  Then, I will either fall back to friendlies if available, or attempt to kill him in melee.
  This situation most commonly arises in battle, which is generally harder for this class, particularly on plains.  Your long reload makes you succeptible to cavalry, other ranged, and most annoyingly cavalry archers.  With the latter, if you miss or do not kill with your first shot, unless you have support you are stuffed.  Most commonly in battle I find my Millitary Pick picking up more kills than my crossbow because I can't get off enough shots before the battle is joined and people generally underestimate a crossbowman's ability in melee.

Frankly, I do not think crossbows are overpowered.  They were fine in the previous patch before this two slot nonsense, take away two slots and remove the damage bonus.  It's archery that is feeble.

[Paul]

EXAMPLE TIEM

Level 30 crossbowman with arbalest+steel bolts.
price: 18796+2263=21059

Mundane:
base damage: 79p + 8p = 87p
final damage: 87p (get no bonus from wpf or skill)

Triple heirloomed:
base damage: 87p + 13p = 100p
final damage: 87p (get no bonus from wpf or skill)

damage difference: 100p-87p=13p
percentage increase: 100p/87p * 100% - 100% = 15%

Level 30 archer with 18 str, 6 PS and 150 wpf using a longbow + bodkin arrows
price: 9974+5058=15032

Mundane:
base damage: 26p + 6p = 32p
final damage: 67p (bonus from wpf, PD and str)

Triple heirloomed:
base damage: 29p + 8p = 37p
final damage: 77p (bonus from wpf, PD and str)

damage difference: 77p-67p=10p
percentage increase: 77p/67p * 100% - 100% = 15%

[Cup1d]

You must be lawyer?

Ok, let's work with your proofs.


EXAMPLE TIEM
Level 15 horsecrossbowman with light crossbow+steel bolts.
price: 6560+2263=8823

Mundane:
base damage: 46p + 8p = 54p
final damage: 54p (get no bonus from wpf or skill)

Triple heirloomed:
base damage: 54p + 13p = 67p
final damage: 67p (get no bonus from wpf or skill)

damage difference: 67p-54p=13p
percentage increase: 67p/54p * 100% - 100% = 24.07%

Versus
Level 30 horse archer with 15 str, 5 PD and 160 wpf using a strongbow + bodkin arrows
price: 7896+5058=12954

Mundane:
base damage: 25c + 6c = 31c
final damage: 60c (bonus from wpf, PD and str)

Triple heirloomed:
base damage: 28c + 8c = 36c
final damage: 70c (bonus from wpf, PD and str)

damage difference: 70c-60c=10c
percentage increase: 70c/60c * 100% - 100% = 16%

Also, we both know that + 13 piercing damage is much better than +10 cut damage.
Also, with 140-160 wpf in xbow, your reticule is way smaller than archer reticule with 5PD and same wpf.
Also, in this case we must comparison 30 level archer and any (above 4) level peasant with light xbow. xbow have maximum damage at start.
Also, your line of defence ignore another bonuses:

EXAMPLE TIEM
arbalest

Mundane:
base weapon speed: 18
base projectile speed: 60
base accuracy: 96


Triple heirloomed:
final weapon speed: 21
final projectile speed: 64
final accuracy: 99


weapon speed difference: 21-18=3
percentage increase: 21/18 * 100% - 100% = 16%

projectile speed difference: 64-60=4
percentage increase: 64/60 * 100% - 100% = 6%

accuracy difference: 99-96=3
percentage increase: 99/96 * 100% - 100% = 3.125%

versus

longbow

Mundane:
base weapon speed: 50
base projectile speed: 55
base accuracy: 95

Triple heirloomed:
final weapon speed: 52
final projectile speed: 58
final accuracy: 97

weapon speed difference: 52-50=2
percentage increase: 52/50 * 100% - 100% = 4%

projectile speed difference: 58-55=3
percentage increase: 58/55 * 100% - 100% = 5,4%

accuracy difference: 97-95=2
percentage increase: 97/95 * 100% - 100% = 2,105%

What now?