I will donate to cRPG if devs give NA_2 map control to the community

[TugBoat]

There have been several threads like this already in the General Discussion and usually noone ever bothers to go to Scene Editing and do some proper feedback or anything beyond the usual QQ, so go ahead and surprise me.

Fips, I am TugBOAT, nice to meet you.

In real life I do a lot of community management type things, and if there's one thing I'm capable of, it's getting things done.

I have already created a Steam group, in which I am inviting leaders or representatives from the following clans:

SKoT, MB, Astralis, HG, HoC, OATH, (DrDemento & Manduin's clan), Scervo, etc. Basically leaders who are very active in siege. Some of these clan leaders I have spoken with have nominated other members of their clans more active in siege to represent their interests in this group (For example, Aldog of MB has admitted he isn't interested enough in Siege, and MB is currently selecting their representative).

As soon as the group has been established, we will begin discussions about the rotation and doing the feedback within the context of the Steamgroup. Once a consensus has been reached among the group of a decent list, we will send this to you/Teeth, as well as have the members of the council messaging you to let you know of their approval of this list.

You guys give it a look (bearing in mind that you're dirty Euros and it's none of your business ;) jk) and make it happen.

This process is going to take a couple of weeks, but I have already made contact with most of the clans above, and we will begin our discussion by this weekend.

[Fips]

Haha, wow 

I'll still wait for my final judgment on this when it's done.

[Teeth]

I guess I kinda ignored the derp in the thread because I saw an opportunity for quality feedback the on rotation, but of course the map rotation is already controlled by the community as in me and Fips and nothing is stopping you from giving good feedback and being listened to. 'Map rotation is shit' and 'bring back old maps' is not good feedback by the way. Suggesting a council of players as official map rotation management is a down right horrible idea from an organizational point of view.

The assumption you make that playing on the server makes you the best available at deciding on a good map rotation is simply incorrect, similarly incorrect is the assumption that not playing on the server makes you unable to decide on a good map rotation. EU siege and NA siege are simply not that different, the only real difference when it comes to maps is the lower player count. A difference which next patch will hopefully bring some goodies for, which caused us to be hesistant about cutting big maps beforehand. Combined with the difficulty of getting a server restart. On the subject of a lack of respect, your insistence on the superiority of NA siege players when it comes to selecting maps could be taken as insulting by me and Fips, luckily 3 months as a scene manager does wonders at growing a thick skin for misguided criticism.

Nevertheless I'd love some quality player feedback, makes hard decisions to cut 'okay' maps a lot easier. As it is a group discussion providing feedback it saves me the effort of asking around for third opinions and I am sure you will quickly find that preferences for maps differ wildly between players and that there are barely any 'right' decisions. I might have misworded the degree of support I am willing to give to the outcome of your council. I won't blindly implement whatever gets decided. I will take it seriously though and revise the rotation together with Fips if any quality feedback ever comes out.

Lastly, be sure to not get carried away by nostalgia, old =/= good, and think about balance, routes and spawns. I'd love it if you could manage get Jarold or Elindor in the discussion as well. Also, PM away.

I like Forest Attack and Native Turin.  I don't remember there being bugs on those maps...

Forest Attack literally had 2 entry ways into the castle, one being a very awkward backdoor and one being a ladder that could easily be locked down for the full 6 minutes. Running into mauls for 5 minutes like its a singleplayer siege. Sure sometimes it played quite well, probably more often on low pop NA, but it is not a good map by any measure.

Turin Castle has a backdoor that is way too good. When it breaks, which is not that hard to accomplish, it takes 30-40 seconds to get to the flag, while the defenders have a 30 second respawn and often spawn quite far away from the flag.

[Jona]

Let's surprise him, NA peeps!


By the way, have you contacted anyone in HoC yet?

[Elindor]

A separate rotation for NA2 is something I discussed with Fips right after he and Teeth became Scene Managers, due to the population differences on both servers, certain maps are not as playable on NA2 usually.

I think the verdict was that it was possible if the devs allowed it.

I could help in this endeavor if people wish...

-----------------------

Here are the steps that need to happen:

1) Find out if it is possible/allowed by devs
2) Come up with NA2 rotation as a community (or small group) - I could help with this as well
3) Put into action...

----------------------

[TugBoat]

A separate rotation for NA2 is something I discussed with Fips right after he and Teeth became Scene Managers.

I think the verdict was that it was possible if the devs allowed it.

I could help in this endeavor if people wish...

-----------------------

Here are the steps that need to happen:

1) Find out if it is possible/allowed by devs
2) Come up with NA2 rotation as a community (or small group) - I could help with this as well
3) Put into action...

Done.

Yo Elindor. I talked to Phew yesterday and told him to give me your Steam. Add TotallyTugBoat on steam and I'll get you in the Steam group

Let's surprise him, NA peeps!


By the way, have you contacted anyone in HoC yet?

Smegmar is in the group!

[Elindor]

Cool will do Tug...

also...this

Not sure if you are aware of this or not, but myself and the rest of the people in the mapping community did get the attention of Paul and he wrote up a code for us that would make a dynamic spawn timer on defense, lowering the spawn time according to the population threshold. 

This should be in the next patch, and should be a BIG thing for NA2, which will hopefully retain players, actually leading to NA2 growing again.

[Jona]

Cool will do Tug...

also...this

Not sure if you are aware of this or not, but myself and the rest of the people in the mapping community did get the attention of Paul and he wrote up a code for us that would make a dynamic spawn timer on defense, lowering the spawn time according to the population threshold. 

This should be in the next patch, and should be a BIG thing for NA2, which will hopefully retain players, actually leading to NA2 growing again.

While I think that this will help NA 2 1000 times over, I still think some maps are just boring, no matter the population, and therefore a community-voted map rotation would still help retain a constant population.

[Elindor]

....and therefore a community-voted map rotation would still help retain a constant population.

I endorse this.

Put the maps up with pictures, and have a poll with as many votes as people want (can vote for all if they want).

The maps with the lowest votes don't go in...I think something like that is a good idea ultimately and will get more people involved in the map situation.

[TugBoat]

While I think that this will help NA 2 1000 times over, I still think some maps are just boring, no matter the population, and therefore a community-voted map rotation would still help retain a constant population.

We're not going to find a map rotation that everyone is going to agree with 100%, but if we can find a map rotation that all of these representatives agree with 85% in addition to the population/timer fix, we're going to see drastic improvement. I think a combination of bringing back old popular maps, deleting maps with balance issues, as well as this script fix, we're going to have a drastic improvement.

The first change will be the big major one, and after that we can suggest tweaks and adjustments over time, adding new maps, etc.

[Teeth]

The first change will be the big major one, and after that we can suggest tweaks and adjustments over time, adding new maps, etc.

Do not forget that scene management is unable to do server restarts and patches. Now I am willing to devote myself to constant nagging of chadz or cmp until we get a server restart when it comes to a big change, but incremental adjustments are barely an option. We have been clamouring for a system that does automated regular restarts, but no success so far.

As for adding maps that are not in the module, it could take till dec 2010 for all we know.

[Jona]

Smegmar is in the group!

Hahaha, have fun.

(click to show/hide)

I see how it is, give all the power to the Jews.

As for adding maps that are not in the module, it could take till dec 2010 for all we know.

Um, what?

[Digglez]

ok, so only 2 devs, which no longer work on the game are the only ones that can do server restart.  Can we get 3 more people who can do them? And maybe even someone in the NA that can do it while you guys are asleep so we can get stuff done?

Good initiative Tugboat.  Look forward to playing SIEGE more

[Jacko]

I do wonder which these old popular maps are. They wouldn't be really terrible maps that were removed for a reason, would they?

Anyway, what you are suggesting we already have in place (simply by writing in scene editing and suggesting maps, changes etc), and it works well. The rotation has always been driven by the community with scene managers acting as gatekeepers, and this will not change.

Now, we have tried getting some NA presence in rotations, but there have been very little interest. A lot of loud whining though. If this is how NA solves it's involvement issues, then I'm fine with it, but it won't get any other treatment than EU. Which still means that regardless of outcome, the managers still have the final word.

[TugBoat]

I do wonder which these old popular maps are. They wouldn't be really terrible maps that were removed for a reason, would they?

Anyway, what you are suggesting we already have in place (simply by writing in scene editing and suggesting maps, changes etc), and it works well. The rotation has always been driven by the community with scene managers acting as gatekeepers, and this will not change.

Now, we have tried getting some NA presence in rotations, but there have been very little interest. A lot of loud whining though. If this is how NA solves it's involvement issues, then I'm fine with it, but it won't get any other treatment than EU. Which still means that regardless of outcome, the managers still have the final word.

Jacko, Fips and Teeth are on the same page with the group I have been putting together. We're not whining. It just seems like you're having a bad day and insulting us. There is no whining in this thread. I made an offer to fix the problem. I'm working actively to organize NA players together in a way that I know will work. It's working so far, and we're going forward with this with Fips and Teeth. Your insults are not helping the situation. I'm working hard to make a solution to the problem, and we're getting results so far.