Golden Dawn, knights in shining armor.

[Kafein]

I don't believe in a "cultural" invasion of Europe by muslims at all. But I think it is an important thing to talk about the implications of a new "big" religion in countries that are supposed to be completely neutral when it comes to religion. Compromises on this neutrality are made without rime or reason (religious symbols in official buildings, biology courses, you name it) all too often in the name of spiritual freedom when really all we are doing is making exceptions on rules that should be universal, to accomodate for religions and beliefs which should strictly remain a personal and private thing. Even worse, this is naturally done in a way that is completely unfair. If tomorrow I send my kids to school then say they can't attend drawing classes because my religion forbids drawing and I want to teach my kids my religion, nobody will take it seriously even though this is the exact same issue with headscarves or hallal food in canteens, because I do not represent a religious group "big enough" to be able to pressure the government into bending the principles or the state to my will.

[Xant]

And Xant disqualifies himself already with having the fat face of Timo Soini in his avatar before. Can't get more right wing populist than that... pathetic.

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[Gnjus]

And Xant disqualifies himself already with having the fat face of Timo Soini in his avatar before. Can't get more right wing populist than that... pathetic.

I wouldn't be surprised if Xant himself looks like a hybrid of Shrek and Jabba the Hut, he sure as hell seems like one, with all the slime he spreads around here.

[Molly]

In Germany, the was recently something going through the media which clearly shows that Germany isn't overtaken but tries well to get everyone under the hood:

A 14 yrs old muslim girl was supposed to go swimming during the sports lesson. She didn't want to cuz of her strict beliefs, like being not properly clothed and she said that she doesn't want to see other girls and boys "naked".
The school said that there are bathing suits for women which are exactly for this purpose, like diving suits, not leaving any skin uncovered. So, they refused to let her off the sports lesson.
She went to trial for her right of not going to the swimming lesson cuz of her religious beliefs. The judge said "Nope, you have to go cuz there are options for you which are officially okay with your religious "leaders" and therefore it ain't a religious but a personal problem and about that I don't give a damn."

The result is now that she still doesn't go swimming but will get the worst grade for that lesson because she could...

How could someone seriously see the democratic values in danger in a country where things are handled like this?

[Molly]

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[Xant]

I'm sorry, you're disqualified from posting gifs because your avatar has a shirt in it.

[Kafein]

In Germany, the was recently something going through the media which clearly shows that Germany isn't overtaken but tries well to get everyone under the hood:

A 14 yrs old muslim girl was supposed to go swimming during the sports lesson. She didn't want to cuz of her strict beliefs, like being not properly clothed and she said that she doesn't want to see other girls and boys "naked".
The school said that there are bathing suits for women which are exactly for this purpose, like diving suits, not leaving any skin uncovered. So, they refused to let her off the sports lesson.
She went to trial for her right of not going to the swimming lesson cuz of her religious beliefs. The judge said "Nope, you have to go cuz there are options for you which are officially okay with your religious "leaders" and therefore it ain't a religious but a personal problem and about that I don't give a damn."

The result is now that she still doesn't go swimming but will get the worst note for that lesson because she could...

How could someone seriously see the democratic values in danger in a country where things are handled like this?

That's the correct way to do it, although I think it shows that the judges even mentioned "religious leaders", why are their opinions relevant ?

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

What annoys me the most is the generalizations going on in here:

The MUSLIMS are overtaking Europe.
The IMMIGRANTS are criminals.
The CHRISTIAN CULTURE is erased.

And that is just bullshit.
The majority of Muslims are just fine people. Bad people are in every group.
The majority of immigrants are just poor people trying to find a way to lead a "normal" life.
The Christian culture is mostly already gone cuz everyone is just thinking of their well-being only anyway.

So, spare me the nonsense about your truth. Your truth is just a bunch of stereotypes and generalizations. And about those statistics, if you even had just the minimal knowledge about actual statistical math, you would know that I could set up something that correlates the rise of women underwear thefts with the loss of potatoes to rain this year. Just because I can mathematical make something shiny and look solid, doesn't make it an actual useful fact.

And Xant disqualifies himself already with having the fat face of Timo Soini in his avatar before. Can't get more right wing populist than that... pathetic.

You forgot "chocolate chip cookieIIIIS!!!! KILL!! KILL!! KILL!!!!!"

[Molly]

That's the correct way to do it, although I think it shows that the judges even mentioned "religious leaders", why are their opinions relevant ?

I lack a proper word. Maybe religious authorities would be better.
What they ment was that there is no religious reason left to not go swimming when everyone that matters on the religious level tells her that those suits are fine. There is an "official" solution that she personally doesn't like. And that is her personal problem she has to deal with, not the school, the teacher or the other pupils.

[Xant]

I lack a proper word. Maybe religious authorities would be better.
What they ment was that there is no religious reason left to not go swimming when everyone that matters on the religious level tells her that those suits are fine. There is an "official" solution that she personally doesn't like. And that is her personal problem she has to deal with, not the school, the teacher or the other pupils.

Way to completely miss the point.

[Molly]

Way to completely miss the point.

Nope, you just didn't understand.

Germany guarantees every religion to enact their beliefs freely. That said, you have to belong to an acknowledged religious group to get that right.
Saying "The spaghetti monster forbids!" is not enough as long as the Spaghetti monster isn't an acknowledged religion in Germany.
The Islam is officially acknowledged, therefore the girl has rights, guaranteed by the German constitution.
Since the religion doesn't forbid her to go swimming when properly clothed with that mentioned swimming suit, she doesn't have the right to "not go swimming".
Kafein asked why religious authorities have a say in this. I answered him on point and now even explained it to you.

[Xant]

Nope, you just didn't understand.

Germany guarantees every religion to enact their beliefs freely. That said, you have to belong to an acknowledged religious group to get that right.
Saying "The spaghetti monster forbids!" is not enough as long as the Spaghetti monster isn't an acknowledged religion in Germany.
The Islam is officially acknowledged, therefore the girl has rights, guaranteed by the German constitution.
Since the religion doesn't forbid her to go swimming when properly clothed with that mentioned swimming suit, she doesn't have the right to "not go swimming".
Kafein asked why religious authorities have a say in this. I answered him on point and now even explained it to you.

No, Kafein was making a point that religious authorities shouldn't have a say in it. Religion should be completely private and even mentioning that religious authority X agrees with policy Y is completely irrelevant and thus shouldn't be brought up.

Unsurprisingly, it's you who didn't understand.

[Molly]

No, Kafein was making a point that religious authorities shouldn't have a say in it. Religion should be completely private and even mentioning that religious authority X agrees with policy Y is completely irrelevant and thus shouldn't be brought up.

Unsurprisingly, it's you who didn't understand.

No, you still don't get it.
The judges asked an expert to a certain case about his opinion. He stated his opinion as an expert and the judges decided. Works with everything in court like this all day, every day.

Just because you seem to see the need to make a difference between a ballistics guy stating his expert opinion about a gun and some Islam expert stating his opinion about religious rules doesn't make you correct.

inb4 Xant calling everyone stupid for not agreeing to his view of things he then calls facts/truths.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

No, you still don't get it.
The judges asked an expert to a certain case about his opinion. He stated his opinion as an expert and the judges decided. Works with everything in court like this all day, every day.

Just because you seem to see the need to make a difference between a ballistics guy stating his expert opinion about a gun and some Islam expert stating his opinion about religious rules doesn't make you correct.

inb4 Xant calling everyone stupid for not agreeing to his view of things he then calls facts/truths.

How the fuck can you still not get it?

[Xant]

No, you still don't get it.
The judges asked an expert to a certain case about his opinion. He stated his opinion as an expert and the judges decided. Works with everything in court like this all day, every day.

Just because you seem to see the need to make a difference between a ballistics guy stating his expert opinion about a gun and some Islam expert stating his opinion about religious rules doesn't make you correct.

inb4 Xant calling everyone stupid for not agreeing to his view of things he then calls facts/truths.

Good almighty deity. Let me try this one more time. Kafein did not ask you a question that he wanted an answer to. It was a rhetorical question.

A rhetorical question is a figure of speech in the form of a question that is asked in order to make a point. The question is used as a rhetorical device, posed for the sake of encouraging its listener to consider a message or viewpoint.