2h thrust rage thread

[Nightmare798]

Why shouldn't they hit? I hope realism isn't the answer to that, because this game is about as much of a simulation as Ace Combat. Should small weapons automatically get crushed through by heavy blunt weapons? Clearly such a small weapon shouldn't be able to block such a heavy blow. Should stabs be unblockable, except by chambering? Clearly holding your weapon horizontally at waist-level wouldn't stop a thrust.

I also find it a little hypocritical that you are want to be able to uncounterably spam a pikeman to death once you get close, but that you also want it to be impossible for a 2h to spam you when he gets close (although it's perfectly counterable).

i want to be able to uncontrollably spam a pikeman if he is foolish enought to not draw a sidearm if i close in to the distance that would be impossible to stab me from. i love how people like you suddenly refer to -this game is not realistic- phrase when they dont want something that is broken fixed because they abuse it.

now if you look closely at the stab block animation, character actallty deflects the stab with his weapon, which is quite easily possible in real life situation [and also is the reason why pike or spear is not good dueling weapon in irl].

the small weapons blocking heavy ass axes and others is a bit unrealistic, but once again, deflecting and redirecting of the blow with your own weapon is indeed possible.

[Vodner]

i want to be able to uncontrollably spam a pikeman if he is foolish enought to not draw a sidearm if i close in to the distance that would be impossible to stab me from.

How about you get stabbed for not blocking down? Frankly, if somebody wins a 1v1 with a 1d weapon, they deserve the win. There should never, ever be a 1v1 situation which is an automatic loss for one of the players.

i love how people like you suddenly refer to -this game is not realistic- phrase when they dont want something that is broken fixed because they abuse it.

I almost never use a pike, so guess again. This game is not a simulation; it is not even close to realistic. Manual blocking for most players is very easy after a few hundred hours of gameplay, so there needs to be a host of tricks for sneaking hits in. If you remove tricks, then 1v1 combat just comes down to who gets bored first (which, frankly, is already the case a lot of the time).

Or, to put it in in a way that is as equally as snarky as you are being: you are shit at the game. Stop posting suggestion until you get better. Spend several months sinking a hundred hours or so into each of the available weapon classes, and then come back and post suggestions. This forum already has way too many people who have only ever played a single weapon class.

now if you look closely at the stab block animation, character actallty deflects the stab with his weapon, which is quite easily possible in real life situation [and also is the reason why pike or spear is not good dueling weapon in irl].

You are not going to deflect a thrust from a fairly heavy weapon (particularly an awlpike) with a tiny one-hander. You certainly aren't going to deflect multiple stabs in a 120 degree arc in front of you, as is the case in Warband. However, the game would be awful if that wasn't possible.

[Nightmare798]

How about you get stabbed for not blocking down? Frankly, if somebody wins a 1v1 with a 1d weapon, they deserve the win. There should never, ever be a 1v1 situation which is an automatic loss for one of the players.
I almost never use a pike, so guess again. This game is not a simulation; it is not even close to realistic. Manual blocking for most players is very easy after a few hundred hours of gameplay, so there needs to be a host of tricks for sneaking hits in. If you remove tricks, then 1v1 combat just comes down to who gets bored first (which, frankly, is already the case a lot of the time).

Or, to put it in in a way that is as equally as snarky as you are being: you are shit at the game. Stop posting suggestion until you get better. Spend several months sinking a hundred hours or so into each of the available weapon classes, and then come back and post suggestions. This forum already has way too many people who have only ever played a single weapon class.
You are not going to deflect a thrust from a fairly heavy weapon (particularly an awlpike) with a tiny one-hander. You certainly aren't going to deflect multiple stabs in a 120 degree arc in front of you, as is the case in Warband. However, the game would be awful if that wasn't possible.

ugh where to start? first define a small one hander, deflecting two handed sword with a sidesword is perfectly possible if you are skilled enought to pull it off. you are clearly forgetting the laws of physics there. if one guy atempts to stab you with a long ass spear and you hit the head, you can easily drive it off course.

also we are talking about shaft stabbing here, which i consider bullshit. if the defender keeps his foe at the head of his pike, then yes, he deserves to win. but stabbing someone who is in facehug range with a fucking pike is ridiculous and unfair.

you do not seem to understand that a guy who uses pike at close quarter is a helpless idiot and DESERVES to be spammed.
your opinion is that everyone should be able to win at any range with any weapon, which i find pretty ridiculous, especially considering weapon classes like bowman and pikeman.

oh and about my skill, i am currently playing horseman, archer, shielder and spearman. also i am testing an engineer throwing build, so have quite enough experience with this mod.

[Vodner]

but stabbing someone who is in facehug range with a fucking pike is ridiculous and unfair.

There is nothing unfair about it. Block down.

so have quite enough experience with this mod.

No, you don't. Sink a few hundred hours into each of the three melee classes. Each of the classes has a distinct set of animations and tricks that can't be learned without putting real time into them.

you do not seem to understand that a guy who uses pike at close quarter is a helpless idiot and DESERVES to be spammed.

A guy who cannot block down is a helpless idiot who deserves to die. Or, more realistically, he is a greedy fuck who knew it was a bad idea to not block, took the risk, and then got punished (everybody does this from time to time).

ugh where to start? first define a small one hander, deflecting two handed sword with a sidesword is perfectly possible if you are skilled enought to pull it off. you are clearly forgetting the laws of physics there. if one guy atempts to stab you with a long ass spear and you hit the head, you can easily drive it off course.

I would absolutely love to see a person with a side-sword attempt to push aside an awlpike (or many of the shorter spears, which are held very close to the tip). If you are trying to establish Warband as some sort of simulation, you aren't going to succeed. Melee in Warband bears about as much resemblance to reality as Street Fighter.

I would also like to see somebody parry multiple pike hits coming from an arc in front of them.

[Nightmare798]

okay ive had enough, i will not put up with someone who thinks that stabbing someone with 4 meters long pike at a distance of 1 meter is perfectly fine, because it is just not.

you just simply dont get it. i did not say i cant defend myself from pikeman at face hug range, i merely said that they shouldnt be able to use their pikes at a range that would normally be impossible to use. if you want to keep broken mechanics unfixed then we have nothing else to talk about here.

EDIT: you clearly havent heard of spanish swordsmen who used to break through pike formation with one handed weapon and shield. you want to know what happened when the wall of pikes was broken? utter anihilation of entire formation.

[Strudog]

okay ive had enough, i will not put up with someone who thinks that stabbing someone with 4 meters long pike at a distance of 1 meter is perfectly fine, because it is just not.

you just simply dont get it. i did not say i cant defend myself from pikeman at face hug range, i merely said that they shouldnt be able to use their pikes at a range that would normally be impossible to use. if you want to keep broken mechanics unfixed then we have nothing else to talk about here.

EDIT: you clearly havent heard of spanish swordsmen who used to break through pike formation with one handed weapon and shield. you want to know what happened when the wall of pikes was broken? utter anihilation of entire formation.

I don't think that you get the fact that blocking down will able to block every stab no matter where they aim at the body, and that by your forum posts that you are pretty incapable at blocking down, i played with the Long spear foe a long time, and yes it is bullshit that it does what it does, but thats because this game is no where near realistic and its just a game mechanic. Its one of those things that is staying and that you have to adapt to (like range).

Learn to down block and stop thinking you are able to beat a piker 1v1 every time, if you are incapable of being patient and waiitng for the right opportunity to strike then i would say you deserve to die in 1v1.

Some people have learnt that the best trick is to just down block forever and let the Pikeman get bored and then attack when he starts making mistakes.

Its pretty simple. Just that you have the wrong mentality of going about it

[Lannistark]

I understand all the rage. I mostly join the torch march to the devs' houses monthly - now if you complain about this go to Nditions in Native. You are gonna cry blood from all the eye cancer those stab narcisists are gonna give to you from that lame feinting spasms.

[Gurnisson]

okay ive had enough, i will not put up with someone who thinks that stabbing someone with 4 meters long pike at a distance of 1 meter is perfectly fine, because it is just not.

4 meter pikes? The Pike (3m) is useless up close. Long spear can be used, but the difference in skill must be massive for a long spear user to beat a shielder. I ate pikemen for breakfast as a shielder, but having played a pikeman I knew when to spam and when to block (which is not to often, mind you). Try pikeman for a while and you might find yourself beating them more easily, just like with most classes. Playing a class will show you their weaknesses.

you just simply dont get it. i did not say i cant defend myself from pikeman at face hug range, i merely said that they shouldnt be able to use their pikes at a range that would normally be impossible to use. if you want to keep broken mechanics unfixed then we have nothing else to talk about here.

People running through chambered pikes is just as retarded. Do both or none.

EDIT: you clearly havent heard of spanish swordsmen who used to break through pike formation with one handed weapon and shield. you want to know what happened when the wall of pikes was broken? utter anihilation of entire formation.

Yes, balance a game with mostly 40-100 players based on formations.

[Just A Random Pizza Guy]

4 meter pikes? The Pike (3m) is useless up close. Long spear can be used, but the difference in skill must be massive for a long spear user to beat a shielder. I ate pikemen for breakfast as a shielder, but having played a pikeman I knew when to spam and when to block (which is not to often, mind you). Try pikeman for a while and you might find yourself beating them more easily, just like with most classes. Playing a class will show you their weaknesses.

People running through chambered pikes is just as retarded. Do both or none.

Yes, balance a game with mostly 40-100 players based on formations.

Yes.

[Smoothrich]

EDIT: you clearly havent heard of spanish swordsmen who used to break through pike formation with one handed weapon and shield. you want to know what happened when the wall of pikes was broken? utter anihilation of entire formation.

This never happened

[Elindor]

Wow, quite the debate here..

Couple things to remember:

1 - When arguing about game mechanics with SaulCanner, realize that his word carries a lot of weight in that he can be sorta impartial since he is good at all classes and good enough above the rest of us rabble to not feel the need to launch into tirades about this or that being OP.  He and players like him (for the most part) are good enough at the mechanics to now more objectively look back at them and see which ones are imbalanced or not.

2 - Saul, when debating with us regular rabble, remember that most of us are not as good at various gameplay aspects as you are and therefore viewpoints could be different.      Sometimes this "different" is bad and inaccurate, and sometimes it is possibly MORE accurate because you may be performing elements above the expected level of the developers.

---------------------

The question becomes, should the game be balanced around people like SaulCanner, Cyranule, San, Miley, Rohypnol (again, all NA people I apologize I don't know their EU counterparts, but basically the people at the top of the duel ladder on either side)....or should it be balanced around the average player (which is a lot more skilled then they used to be).   Or both?  I don't know, just wanted to raise that thought.

Something to ponder over.

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[Kafein]

How about you get stabbed for not blocking down? Frankly, if somebody wins a 1v1 with a 1d weapon, they deserve the win. There should never, ever be a 1v1 situation which is an automatic loss for one of the players.

As someone playing very particular conditions (without armor), I can say 1D and 2D polearms are one of the toughest enemies around for me. They hit instantly (and I mean the faster than blocking kind of instant) at facehug range without glancing. Other weapons that can stab do this too, but 1D pole players usually master lolstabbing and only use stabs while others often prefer swings.

[Nightmare798]

This never happened

how do you know?

[Vodner]

When arguing about game mechanics with SaulCanner, realize that his word carries a lot of weight in that he can be sorta impartial since he is good at all classes and good enough above the rest of us rabble to not feel the need to launch into tirades about this or that being OP.

There are quite a few good players who play a lot of different classes (Teeth is probably my favourite). I'm certainly not unique in terms of skill level or class diversity.

[Berserkadin]

Nightmare798 = Mad cuz bad