RE: Admin Transparency

[Wrangham]

1: None, mainly because the rules are incredibly vague. Go take a look at http://forum.meleegaming.com/announcements/official-server-rules/. Then come back here and tell me which rule applies to this situation. Admins are trusted enough to use their own judgement in situations like this, but not every admin is going to have the same opinion.

Thank you for responding to the question. Here are the rules broken:

violation #1 Common sense rule

"Do not come crying "it's not prohibited in the rules" if you invent a new creative way to be an idiot and get punished." cRPG is a team game. More specifically, NA1 is a team battle server. There are many other servers players should use if they want a new set of rules. Some clans set up their own servers for this reason.

Rule of thumb: If you are not helping your team to win the round you are doing something wrong.

Violation #2 Bypassing the autobalance"

Refusing to kill your friends is bypassing autobalance. Autobalance picks your teammates and your enemies. If Kolee and Khmer let some random player walk past then maybe this wouldn't be bro-coding. But they let their friend past because "autobalance be damned, I make the rules!"

Violation #3 Leeching

"bro-coding" with the opposite team is consider leeching "Not contributing is leeching"

Refusing to kill your friends is not contributing. Players cannot decide to contribute only when they are the last players left and forced to do so.

Violation #4 Delaying

Please tell me you don't need chadz to specifically say "don't avoid fighting until just you and your bro are the last guys alive so you can fight with an audience."

2: Has nothing to do with admins. Admins can only lock and move threads in the unban sections. That's all the forum rights they have. Taking action against Ragnar would be something a global moderator would have to do.

Thank you for the response. Obviously admins and global moderators need to work together to eliminate this kind of behavior. It undermines the authority of the process.

3: One admin considering it the same as teamwounding, doesn't mean that every admin does. Again, there are no official rules on this issue. Personally, I have no problem with "bro-coding", as long as it doesn't result in intentional teamwounding.

There are official server rules on this issue. It is not too much to ask for an admin team to be on the same page regarding official server rules. It is not too much to ask for an admin team which actively takes steps to ensure fellow admins know the rules. Otherwise you get this kind of worst-case scenario, where Granpappy refuses to even acknowledge that rules were broken and Kelugarn swoops in to lock the ban thread with a slap on the wrist.

[Kalam]

There are official server rules on this issue. It is not too much to ask for an admin team to be on the same page regarding official server rules. It is not too much to ask for an admin team which actively takes steps to ensure fellow admins know the rules. Otherwise you get this kind of worst-case scenario, where Granpappy refuses to even acknowledge that rules were broken and Kelugarn swoops in to lock the ban thread with a slap on the wrist.

From reading both yours and Granpappy's post, there isn't a clear way to see what happened. Checking the logs doesn't reveal anything in this situation, either.

If you feel you were wronged, just wait till it happens again. Report it again. Don't stop reporting it in admin chat. You never know who's watching. Generally speaking, admins will avoid taking action if they don't see it themselves. The solution often involves long-term spectating, and the 'crime', if it occurs, often goes unpunished until the perpetrators commit it a second time in plain view of the admin.

[IG_Saint]

I probably should have put this in my other post, but nothing I say is an official response in any way. It's just my opinion, I have nothing to do with, nor any knowledge of this situation, or how the NA admins operate in general.

That said, you completely missed this part of my post: "Admins are trusted enough to use their own judgement in situations like this, but not every admin is going to have the same opinion." The common sense rule is exactly what I'm talking about there.

Bypassing the autobalance is something entirely different, it was implemented to stop people trying to endlessly joining one team, then the spectators and back again till they got the team they wanted.

Leeching only applies when the person is not contributing to the team for a longer time and usually repeatedly. Chatting, being afk for a couple of seconds, running away from somebody you know you can't beat, all of those could be interpreted as not contributing and none of them should result in a ban. Muuki's post is his opinion, my opinion is that "bro-coding" really isn't an issue.

The rules are honestly just there as rough guidelines and most of them can be interpreted in 50 different ways, the admins in question are the ones that interpret the rules and decide which action (if any) needs to be taken.

Your entire problem is that you think these guys hurt your teams win chance. I dread the day a rule that forbids that gets implemented. That day will be the death of fun in crpg.

You also seems to expect a lot of profesionalism from a bunch of unpaid admins in a mod.

[HarryCrumb]

From reading both yours and Granpappy's post, there isn't a clear way to see what happened. Checking the logs doesn't reveal anything in this situation, either.

If you feel you were wronged, just wait till it happens again. Report it again. Don't stop reporting it in admin chat. You never know who's watching. Generally speaking, admins will avoid taking action if they don't see it themselves. The solution often involves long-term spectating, and the 'crime', if it occurs, often goes unpunished until the perpetrators commit it a second time in plain view of the admin.

If you don't know who are the perpetual bro-coders then you just don't play on NA_1 enough.

[Wrangham]

Hi global moderator. Please refer to OP specifically question #2 concerning irrelevant forum posts in the ban request section. Thank you for your attention.

From reading both yours and Granpappy's post, there isn't a clear way to see what happened. Checking the logs doesn't reveal anything in this situation, either.

You cannot capture brocoding with screenshots or by looking at longs. There were 30+ players who can all tell you exactly what happened. A disinterested 3rd party who was on the server at the time:

I usually don't like to stick my head into stuff like this, but Wrang is absolutely right... This was ridiculous.

I was on a x5 multiplier and lost it because of this. Sherben comes right up to AngkorWat and Kolee, salutes them both, then proceeds to go forward and kill 3 people in the back (ultimately resulting in the loss of the round).

People are so used to this by now, that's why most people are saying "Who cares man?" or "Relax, it's no big deal."

Instead of letting more players comment the thread is bogged down with Granpappy and Ragnar's irrelevant banter and locked within minutes by Kelugarn, an admin obviously sympathetic to Kolee and Khmer:

If we served bans for every player that bro-coded on occasion then we'd end up banning half of the NA population. The only time when bro-ing it up is close to "game breaking" is when the last man alive is getting hugs from the entire enemy team, and even when that happens it only lasts for a few seconds before someone goes for the kill. . . Try and remember that it's just one round in a mod about internet horses and two-handed swords, and sometimes the other people that play like to be creative and have fun in ways other than murderorgy2010. Making a thread bitching and moaning about how someone didn't take the game seriously enough is not going to get you anywhere.

This is an admin? He admits that there is a monumental problem where half the NA population is griefing the other half and doesn't care because it would be too much work to actually enforce the server rules, so "stop bitching and moaning." I am definitely going to get admins to take action with your suggested strategy of "don't stop reporting."

[RandomDude]

I think Kalam and Saint said everything that needs to be said from an admin point of view. With that said, if it's a big problem on NA and it's causing people to lose rounds (and fun imo) it should be curbed somewhat.

[Molly]

I don't like this wrangham guy.

[Turboflex]

I don't know what's wrong with people who "bro code" like this. Putting a priority on nutcupping someone while shitting up the game for everyone else? What's the point anyway? Its more fun to kill your buddies when you see them on opposite team.

Good work Wrang taking the time to expose the shameful cheating going on amongst some player cliques around here and the admins who seemingly tolerate or even endorse it. It's easy to blow this stuff off and take the low road but in long term it damages the gameplay found on c-rpg servers and causes people to quit.

[Vodner]

Ganking clanmates who are in TeamSpeak with you is some of the most fun you can have in the game.

[RandomDude]

Ganking clanmates who are in TeamSpeak with you is some of the most fun you can have in the game.

Yeah killing Clan mates is my favourite thing to do, especially if they're an archer.

[obitus]

I've seen a new level of trolling today as a teammate not only stood neutral but acted as a human shield for his clanmate enemy.  Naturally I plowed through both of them, as I would have done in any situation.  When I was reported for TW I had a hearty chuckle.

I think it's a great idea to troll.  Someone will end up doing this every round, or get paid gold to.  Naturally they will use a skipfun (save your KD) on the opposite team from their clan banner stack.

[Christo]

NA drama..

mmmm, tasty

[Rhaelys]

Ganking clanmates who are in TeamSpeak with you is some of the most fun you can have in the game.

Oh hey there Saul, I'll just be on my- no, wait, stop; what are you doing? Oh g-BLAEAGJLKEJF

[Gmnotutoo]

People like you should be banned for posting condescending straw-man sophistry. If you want to peacefully walk around the map and not fight then do it on another server - I am sorry if this inconveniences you but griefing the entire server by ignoring the official rules is not an acceptable alternative.

It doesn't matter if you try to manipulate what I said I know the server rules and what I do is perfectly within my rights as a player.

If you can find this mythological rule that every person must fight the nearest enemy at all times I'll be happy to abide by it. Until then I'll continue to role-play my Jedi Master who only fights in self-defense. Maybe if you too pretended to be a Jedi you'd lighten up and stop being a mad try-hard.

Here is the Jedi Code to get you started:

There is no emotion...
There is peace.
There is no ignorance...
There is knowledge.
There is no passion...
There is serenity.
There is no chaos...
There is harmony.
There is no death...
There is the force.

If you are unable or unwilling to embrace a lighter play style then feel free to find me on the battlefield and try to kill me. You probably wont succeed, but if you do I want you to know that I'll become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.

[Prpavi]

I somehow can never connect to NA drama 

Is it because I don't know the players involved?