Author Topic: Heavy armor needs a significant nerf to run speed and wpf  (Read 6047 times)

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Offline bruce

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Re: Heavy armor needs a significant nerf to run speed and wpf
« Reply #30 on: January 08, 2011, 10:16:57 am »
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Archers can still pull out a melee weapon and kill that tincan in melee. On my crossbowman I get probably 75% of the kills meleeing (because, well, it would just be unpractical to reload and stay in position to do so when I could run into the melee and fight), people in transitional and such go down even to a cutting weapon fairly fast.

Alternatively, if you want to do damage, at expense of firing speed, use a longbow, with its damage and the huge bonus from powerdraw it really does hurt when it hits. Even a warbow really hurts - with 45 body armour, it takes about 35% of my HP (15 str / 5 IF).



 
« Last Edit: January 08, 2011, 10:24:07 am by bruce »
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Offline SalmonGod

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Re: Heavy armor needs a significant nerf to run speed and wpf
« Reply #31 on: January 08, 2011, 10:26:45 am »
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In fact making it so that plate users can't agistack, and agistackers can't use weapons that hurt platers much would be more balanced.

I would like to see power strike as difficulty for melee weapons, just like throwing weapons.  A hunk of metal shouldn't get shredded apart like paper by a flurry of light blows. 

Ideally, I would like to see a heavy vs light infantry play out where the heavy has to hope his opponent makes a mistake while he's being slowly whittled down, and the light has to avoid making a mistake that will get him hit by a slow but deadly blow and finish the fight before teammates show up.

I know this is a very stereotypical style of balance, but it's so common for a reason.  It makes sense.  It works.  It balances well for teamplay.

Offline LLJK_Korea1

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Re: Heavy armor needs a significant nerf to run speed and wpf
« Reply #32 on: January 08, 2011, 10:53:30 am »
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« Last Edit: January 08, 2011, 11:05:34 am by LLJK_Korea1 »
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Offline verinen

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Re: Heavy armor needs a significant nerf to run speed and wpf
« Reply #33 on: January 08, 2011, 10:56:31 am »
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6IL2giKNN8

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I'm sure he spit his own lungs after 20 secs of action like this....

Offline UrLukur

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Re: Heavy armor needs a significant nerf to run speed and wpf
« Reply #34 on: January 08, 2011, 01:39:47 pm »
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Oh so Keshian want to kite people with his bow, so they can't fight back ?

NO. Go back to your basement kid, YOU played and want to play one of the most retarded build. It's good it was fixed.
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Offline Bulzur

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Re: Heavy armor needs a significant nerf to run speed and wpf
« Reply #35 on: January 08, 2011, 01:50:11 pm »
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Archers can still pull out a melee weapon and kill that tincan in melee. On my crossbowman I get probably 75% of the kills meleeing (because, well, it would just be unpractical to reload and stay in position to do so when I could run into the melee and fight), people in transitional and such go down even to a cutting weapon fairly fast.

Alternatively, if you want to do damage, at expense of firing speed, use a longbow, with its damage and the huge bonus from powerdraw it really does hurt when it hits. Even a warbow really hurts - with 45 body armour, it takes about 35% of my HP (15 str / 5 IF).

o_O
Nonsense. Except if you're a hybrid. Try to kill a tincan with 0 PS, 1wpf, 15 str and a longsword, for example.
Warbow does indeed do good damage. But the accuracy is terrible, not even speaking of the firing speed.

You can't compare melee archers to melee xbows. Since xbows can put skill points in PS, when archers put them in PD.
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Offline UrLukur

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Re: Heavy armor needs a significant nerf to run speed and wpf
« Reply #36 on: January 08, 2011, 02:11:49 pm »
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Go hybrid then ? 80 wpf, 3/4 ps, some weapon that deal blunt or pierce damage, problem solved. It cost you 3 or 5 archery wpf, i donno how much they cost on high wpf level. I think even few 2h/pole wpf less do the job. If you want to do PURE archer, deal with consequences.

Not that you have to fight that tincan, you can flee, you can help your teammates to put him down.
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Offline Radix

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Re: Heavy armor needs a significant nerf to run speed and wpf
« Reply #37 on: January 08, 2011, 02:36:47 pm »
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I am wearing a plate armor, and I agree cose it seems to be resonable. However there is another solution as well besides this, once I spoke about stamina bar and been laughed at, however I always will keep thinking that stamina would cut tincan's versatility and give a kick to 2h spammers. But I know that stamina for some reason equals for some ppl HP potions and fireballs, so lest just stick to wpf nerf and higher STR requirements

Offline UrLukur

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Re: Heavy armor needs a significant nerf to run speed and wpf
« Reply #38 on: January 08, 2011, 02:41:36 pm »
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Stamina is reasonable concept, but most games do it wrong, so people don't like it.

Another solution is some kind of wound penalties, this would allow archers to soften up people, so they don't have same weapon speed, movement and reaction times as characters with full health.

But i don't think those two will be ever implemented in M&B:W. Maybe on some other game engine ?
« Last Edit: January 08, 2011, 02:42:38 pm by UrLukur »
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Offline Cup1d

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Re: Heavy armor needs a significant nerf to run speed and wpf
« Reply #39 on: January 08, 2011, 03:32:18 pm »
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wound penalties for horses already realised in Rubic's mod. Drastically reducing speed, maneuvrability and charge damage.

Offline UrLukur

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Re: Heavy armor needs a significant nerf to run speed and wpf
« Reply #40 on: January 08, 2011, 03:36:05 pm »
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wound penalties for horses already realised in Rubic's mod. Drastically reducing speed, maneuvrability and charge damage.

Oh wait, there is flag that work on hit. Good, just ask chadz to implement it!
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Offline bruce

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Re: Heavy armor needs a significant nerf to run speed and wpf
« Reply #41 on: January 08, 2011, 03:37:05 pm »
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o_O
Nonsense. Except if you're a hybrid. Try to kill a tincan with 0 PS, 1wpf, 15 str and a longsword, for example.
Warbow does indeed do good damage. But the accuracy is terrible, not even speaking of the firing speed.

You can't compare melee archers to melee xbows. Since xbows can put skill points in PS, when archers put them in PD.

Polearms - even slow ones - work just fine with 40-ish wpf, and 5 PS and hurt just about everyone these days now plate is very very rarely present on the battlefield. That means sacrificing a very negligible amount of wpf (since wpf around 120 becomes very expensive, so it's a question whether I have 128 crossbow wpf and 0 melee wpf or 121 crossbow wpf and 50 melee wpf), and doing a few point conversions less so you have powerstrike. I also got ironflesh because I value extra survivability over having 2 atribute points more; character creation choices. But you don't get to whine about the consequences of bad character creation choices.

If you want MAX attributes for archery/etc, then deal with it, seriously. The reason why people hybridise is to be able to take on a larger selection of classes. For instance, I sacrificed the spammability and damage of my polearm (my last gen was a pure polearmer, it was much easier with the extra wpf) and armour (with 14.5K more to play with, I could pack much better gear) to be able to shoot other ranged (and occasionally, horses, although tbh throwing is the superior choice for anti-horse work and close ranged combat in general).

Anyway, with the current situation good archers are still a menace (not the ultimate weapon, but I see them near/at the top of the killboard), and bad archers are just like bad melee, inefficient.
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Offline HoboJoe

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Re: Heavy armor needs a significant nerf to run speed and wpf
« Reply #42 on: January 08, 2011, 04:48:33 pm »
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Another thing I've noticed that the level of athletics has a lot less effect on movement speed now. Too little if you ask me.
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Offline bruce

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Re: Heavy armor needs a significant nerf to run speed and wpf
« Reply #43 on: January 08, 2011, 04:56:10 pm »
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Another thing I've noticed that the level of athletics has a lot less effect on movement speed now. Too little if you ask me.

 :rolleyes:
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Offline Keshian

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Re: Heavy armor needs a significant nerf to run speed and wpf
« Reply #44 on: January 08, 2011, 05:34:45 pm »
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Oh so Keshian want to kite people with his bow, so they can't fight back ?

NO. Go back to your basement kid, YOU played and want to play one of the most retarded build. It's good it was fixed.

Wow you arrogant ass, its about overall game balance for everyone.  I had a level 3 alt I have taken to level 20 so far and by level 7 it was easy mode.  All I had to do was 2H/thrower and strength build.  Throw javelins (1hit pierce kill with 34 damage and 3 powerthrow now 6 powerhtrow) and then charge with a 2 handed weapon and block once (many spammers now that people are lower levels so easier to 1 hit kill) and the combat speed is much slower now so far easier to block then before and you can 1-2 hit kill with a fast melee weapon.  Archers shoot me and almost all only take 5-10% of my health and I can run them down easily with 3 athletics or throw a javelin in their back as they run away from me and their drawing speed is so much slower then my throwing speed so incredibly easy.  I get to put almost all my points into strength and IF, PS and Powerthrow and have 63 health already with much stronger armor that  allows me tos urvive many cutting damage hits.
My javelins may sink a lot so you have to arc them, but they always go dead center where you aimed them with 96 wpf.

Meanwhile, my level 30 archer alt with 6 powerdraw and 162 wpf in archery has arrows go randomly shanked left and right, up and down from the aiming reticule most of the time so yes I can take 1/5 to 2/5ths of your health if I can hit with warbow and bodkin arrows and 6 pwrdrw, but because of the randomness it becomes a slow spamfest.  I fanyone charges you with any erractic movement almost impossible to hit becuase of a delayed trigger release from when you release the button thanks to the new combat animation.  Ive topped the charts twice with the archer alt when people were still uncertain about the patch and wearing lighter armor and maps heavily favored ranged (gulley down to the beach), but I have not seen any other archer in the top 3 by the end of a map with a sevrer having more then 30 people (and no I am not trying to be arrogant about this, because I have not been in top 3 nor any other archer that I can see since hotfix (unless fake archer doing mostly melee build and fighting melee) where everyone wears heavy mail or light plate and still makes money).

My xbow alt (level 13) with wpf in only xbow can shoot faster than  alongbow with hunting and light xbow and more accurately because it shoots dead center of smaller reticule.

I dont know about you, but when a lot of changes were made its easy for imbalances to be created and right now throwing and 2h heavy strength builds heavy mail armor is heavily imbalanced.  (xbows at least got some nerf, even more with hotfix - so seem more balanced)  Maybe adding an aspect of realism would help, yes you can be near impervious to cutting but you actually move lower and swing slower as a tank.
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