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Give our Christmass hat  BACK!

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Author Topic: Make the Heavy and Arbalest cheaper!  (Read 3997 times)

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Offline F i n

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Re: Make the Heavy and Arbalest cheaper!
« Reply #30 on: October 19, 2012, 11:59:36 am »
0
Bump
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Offline Dalfador

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Re: Make the Heavy and Arbalest cheaper!
« Reply #31 on: October 21, 2012, 06:41:34 am »
-1
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Offline Grumpy_Nic

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Re: Make the Heavy and Arbalest cheaper!
« Reply #32 on: October 22, 2012, 08:01:52 am »
+1
I've played Arba for something like 6 gens I think and I think the cost was ok. On the other hand there was this strange nerfing of it (or the buff or armor) and its just not really worth it anymore. It just does not has the punch that it used to have which made the high upkeep cost obsolete, I can use a regular xbow and almost have the same results.
If an item really brings you an advantage on the field I dont care what it costs. For example a courser (maybe with +3 on top) is a very big advantage if you're not a complete idiot, or one of the heavily armored horses (pick any of them), they cost a lot of money, but playing cav I didnt mind the cost cuz horses are awesome.
For those of you not familiar with dedicated xbowing compare it that way:
Rouncey with Courser upkeep
Barbed Arrows with Bodkins upkeep

Oh and I almost forgot: I know that Dave and Friedturtle and similar good players probably dont need to care about this upkeep because you make a very large impact on every round which can turn it in your teams favour, but think of people like me that play rather ok instead of being able to land a headshot every second bolt. Many of the "average" players go for bodyshots and they do a lot of damage too, I'm aware of that but still, I think the upkeep is a bit too high, after all, with an arbalest you're giving up one of the most important factors in this game - mobility.

Offline DaveUKR

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Re: Make the Heavy and Arbalest cheaper!
« Reply #33 on: October 22, 2012, 11:45:21 am »
-8
Most of the time - I explain each my suggestion, this time I didn't and got a lot if minuses  :wink:
So why do I actually suggest to increase the upkeep of Arbalest or at least leave it the same:

1) Everyone here should understand that Arbalest users are extreme class. They're not meant to be the main mass of crossbow users. You can check all classes and you will see the same - players don't tend to use the highest tier weapon because it's too extreme and expensive. They rather prefer more balanced weapons. A lot of examples: Rus Bow over Longbow even though Longbow has better damage and projectile speed; Jarids over Throwing lances; other polearms over Elegant Poleaxe; great swords over Flamberge; NCS over Long Espada Elsavona etc. How many Heavy Crossbow users do you know? There were some of them in the past but now I don't know a single one, even though MW Heavy Crossbow is a little bit more accurate than MW Arbalest. Regular Crossbows are something rare, Light Crossbows are only used by Horse Crossbowmen.

2) Arbalest users are meant to be expensive. It's probably my fault that I popularized medium-heavily armoured arbalest users. But it's not my fault that people got it wrong. The thing is that you're meant to lose money playing with medium/heavy armoured Arbalester. Why I made it in my guide? The answer is simple: this guide was made mainly for those who didn't have 15+ generations so they were about to retire a lot. And they were not about using Arbalest on low levels, so by the moment you reach viable level (i.e. 25) for using Arbalest - you already have a decent amount of money to spend on upkeep until you reach lvl31 to retire again. So by the moment you reach needed generation - you already have a decent amount of money to play further than lvl31. Also, I personally don't lose money with my gear (46,100 gold price, 3224 max upkeep) and my gear is ultra expensive.

3) Making classes expensive is one of the worst ways to balance, but still it works in some cases. There are a lot of Arbalesters now (not as many as archers though), more than it's supposed to be. Expensive classes stop randomers from playing them, but never stops dedicated players. So making it less expensive equals making it more popular. And if you make it more popular you'll make another wave of classes so everyone will whine about enormous amount of arbalest users (and we already have overpopulated ranged division).

Offline karasu

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Re: Make the Heavy and Arbalest cheaper!
« Reply #34 on: October 22, 2012, 12:04:44 pm »
0
Easy mode, QQ.

edit: I also know how to play that neo-my old friendgery-Merc minus voting game, omniscient Dave.  :wink:
« Last Edit: October 22, 2012, 12:23:59 pm by karasu »

Offline Grumpy_Nic

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Re: Make the Heavy and Arbalest cheaper!
« Reply #35 on: October 22, 2012, 12:26:26 pm »
-1
Easy mode, QQ.

edit: I also know how to play that neo-my old friendgery-Merc minus voting game, omniscient Dave.  :wink:

Very usefull comment. You could also go and suffocate somewhere

Offline karasu

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Re: Make the Heavy and Arbalest cheaper!
« Reply #36 on: October 22, 2012, 12:27:31 pm »
+1
It was move of a private joke with Davey-boy, but hey, I'll take that into consideration too kind sir.  :D



Offline Grumpy_Nic

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Re: Make the Heavy and Arbalest cheaper!
« Reply #37 on: October 22, 2012, 12:28:28 pm »
0
Private joke in public message... hmmm

Offline karasu

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Re: Make the Heavy and Arbalest cheaper!
« Reply #38 on: October 22, 2012, 12:31:22 pm »
-1
You already have my contribution on the thread, a thread that like every other will die forgotten in time.

They're pretty much fine.

The only thing an arbalester wastes money on is mostly the arbalest itself, due to wpf requirements of low gear, or the sidearm if no wpf used in it.

Now try to be less arrogant and mind your own business, young man.

Offline Grumpy_Nic

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Re: Make the Heavy and Arbalest cheaper!
« Reply #39 on: October 22, 2012, 12:33:59 pm »
0
As all other suggestions will die somewhere. Still people make them, dunno why. Sometimes I feel I can post some of my limited crpg experience in one of these threads

Edit: And no, never will I be less arrogant, I've been a very nice person for a long time but being a prick is much more fun in life.

Offline DaveUKR

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Re: Make the Heavy and Arbalest cheaper!
« Reply #40 on: October 22, 2012, 01:07:49 pm »
-5
edit: I also know how to play that neo-my old friendgery-Merc minus voting game, omniscient Dave.  :wink:

yeah, says the guy who minused my post earlier in this thread... grow up. I only give minuses to useless posts. Plus, as you can see my infamy, 50% of it were given by Nords + Zlisch, so don't bother.

Offline karasu

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Re: Make the Heavy and Arbalest cheaper!
« Reply #41 on: October 22, 2012, 01:11:35 pm »
0
Sigh... Another soul lost.

Farewell dave.

Offline DaveUKR

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Re: Make the Heavy and Arbalest cheaper!
« Reply #42 on: October 22, 2012, 01:33:39 pm »
-4
Sigh... Another soul lost.

Farewell dave.

You see, here comes Andswaru giving me -1 aswell. You can't have success against Mercs on the battlefield so you fight on forums giving minuses, how high. Koldborn I removed -1 to your post if you care that much but it's really a dick move whining about it since you gave me -1 before in this thread

Offline Joseph Porta

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Re: Make the Heavy and Arbalest cheaper!
« Reply #43 on: October 22, 2012, 01:53:11 pm »
0
I use heavy crossbow.. But i only kill through headshots. (non-loomed) cant even 1 shot archers..
I loot corpses of their golden teeth.
But he'll be around somewhere between Heaven and The Devil, because neither of them will take him in, and he'll be farting loudly and singing a filthy song.

i'll be there at around
chadztime™

Offline Nightingale

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Re: Make the Heavy and Arbalest cheaper!
« Reply #44 on: October 22, 2012, 02:07:11 pm »
+1
yeah, says the guy who minused my post earlier in this thread... grow up. I only give minuses to useless posts. Plus, as you can see my infamy, 50% of it were given by Nords + Zlisch, so don't bother.

I -1'd you on two different posts in this thread. In EU there might be more people using Arbalests, but on NA side... there is like 2 or 3 people, how is this over populated?

all I can think off off the top of my head is Myself, DarkKarma, and some guy that some times play NA siege called "Conte", sure some times there might be 4-5, sooner than they appear they are gone again.

I agree with you on one point thought, The cost is fine, I use Lammellar Vest, Taganachi helmet with veil, and a Niuweidao as a side arm. I tend to boarder line make money.

I have never fought you before either, so I definitely didn't minus 1 you just because I cant kill you lol....