Longswords & Heavy Bastard Swords

[Mlekce]

short broad longsword needed too

Why this man isn't in dev team? 

[Sir_Wonka]

Maybe a flamberge buff should be put in place. It seems really only useable with an agi build to jump around. With my experiences I just get spammed or get too close.

[Smoothrich]

Yes, buff the Flamberge, buff the Great Sword, lol

[Panos]

In my honest opinion, the stab of the 2h swords is really UP, come on lets be honest, the stab cant even outreach a pike, this is unfair.

BUFF 2H SWORDS #2K13

[Legs]

These QQ threads never change. It's always the same story.

"Everyone but me is overpowered! Nerf pls!"

But don't worry, I have a brilliant new idea for how we can balance cRPG once and for all!
We'll just nerf EVERYTHING until we're all fighting with super soakers and foam weapons. Then everyone will be on even footing and everyone will be happy, right?

(click to show/hide)

nerf super soaker

[Kalam]

I'm not saying they're not overpowered weapons, but saying it's due to 'double swing' amuses me.

Double swinging is a figment of your imagination, unless there's weapon stun involved. It's a question of footwork and knowing when to block. Everyone can block and everyone can chamber these days, so it's all about timing and positioning.

[Panos]

I'm not saying they're not overpowered weapons, but saying it's due to 'double swing' amuses me.

Double swinging is a figment of your imagination, unless there's weapon stun involved. It's a question of footwork and knowing when to block. Everyone can block and everyone can chamber these days, so it's all about timing and positioning.

With double swing he means the endless spamming, tbh I don`t mind that much the speed of the longsword, what annoys me the most is the crazy speed bonus that the damage gets due to the 100+ speed.

[isatis]

The GS nerfs and shorter sword buff was implemented because there was only 2 2h actually in use on EU. The danish and the german, and it had been like that for 2 years.

Also, 2h heroes complained that DGS and GGS were too slow after some slight nerfs..

The solution was to make the shorter 2h swords more viable/faster, while nerfing the longer ones to actually create some variety in 2h weapon use. It worked, on EU we do have slightly more variation than we used to have.

Why the longswords are so popular on NA only god knows. Perhaps because you don't need weaponmaster to be fast with them?

I made picture to explain it !

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[Kaelaen]

With double swing he means the endless spamming, tbh I don`t mind that much the speed of the longsword, what annoys me the most is the crazy speed bonus that the damage gets due to the 100+ speed.

The OP is actually probably talking about the same thing Kalam is thinking of, also known as the hilt slash, or at least in certain circles, the Castor Swing©.  I don't know the melee scene in EU but in NA tons of people do it, which is why longswords and bastard swords were and are still popular.

[Elindor]

These swords are popular because they are versatile.  Decent dmg, good speed, although barely longer than the longer 1h swords - and not too expensive.

Albeit in battle they could be viewed as a little short, they are very useful in siege since longer swords tend to get stuck on castle walls and in crowds. 

I said it in Rusty's thread and I'll say it here - I really don't see tons of LS/HBS.  I see more katana's and miaodao's honestly.  The katana is faster and harder hitting than the LS/HBS, and the Miaodao is easily the best 2H out there especially with its perceived "ghost reach" from the curved end - why I don't use it I do not know lol.

Not sure where all the LS/HBS criticism is coming from lately but even looking at it objectively I fail to see them as some huge OP problem.  Are they maybe 1 speed too fast?  Sure, latest buff was not necessary and I agree with that.  But, their damage, especially on NA with all the HP/Armor - is not even that viable.  I end up pulling out my morningstar more and more these days

[Nehvar]

Wait, this confuses me a little.  Are you complaining that a 99/100 speed weapon is considerably faster than a 86 speed weapon?  Why should the longsword/HBS user have to match the rhythm of the flamberge user?  If you let a speedy hand/half sword user get in your face, you're going to be at a disadvantage with a slow weapon like the flamberge.  That's the downside to a long, hard-hitting weapon...being slow. 

It's not like you can't fight back though.  The high damage of the flamberge lets you turn into your swing considerably to hit early.  You may have to block a couple times in a row against a hand/half sword but it's definitely not a no-win situation.  Great maul users however...  I feel bad for them.  You guys are better off getting a bar mace because that weapon is garbage.

[Nehvar]

These swords are popular because they are versatile.  Decent dmg, good speed, although barely longer than the longer 1h swords - and not too expensive.

Albeit in battle they could be viewed as a little short, they are very useful in siege since longer swords tend to get stuck on castle walls and in crowds. 

I said it in Rusty's thread and I'll say it here - I really don't see tons of LS/HBS.  I see more katana's and miaodao's honestly.  The katana is faster and harder hitting than the LS/HBS, and the Miaodao is easily the best 2H out there especially with its perceived "ghost reach" from the curved end - why I don't use it I do not know lol.

Not sure where all the LS/HBS criticism is coming from lately but even looking at it objectively I fail to see them as some huge OP problem.  Are they maybe 1 speed too fast?  Sure, latest buff was not necessary and I agree with that.  But, their damage, especially on NA with all the HP/Armor - is not even that viable.  I end up pulling out my morningstar more and more these days

I agree on the miaodao.  I get pissed off every time I use it when I re-realize how stupidly good it is.  If I liked the aesthetics of the curved swords, that's what I'd be using all the time.  I also agree on the LS/HBS.  The buff always struck me as unnecessary; especially when you consider the nerf to the german/danish. 

[MrShine]

Try fighting a spammer with simple non-feinted swings & keep proper footwork.

You aren't going to get "double-swung" unless you get weapon stunned.

[Kafein]

Try fighting a spammer with simple non-feinted swings

Hence why spam is boring and overall a terrible, horrible thing for melee combat quality.

[Duster]

      The internal balance for 2hers is just plain bad. You see a myriad of one handers (some use blunt/pierce, many use swords, at least a couple use the axes), and a decent variety of polearms in use (pikes/long spears, hoplite spears, the swingable ones, the 2d awlpike-esque ones). What you don't see are 2h axes/bardiches, 2h blunt, or any of the medium to long swords in comparison to the bastard sword line.

      What needs to happen is an inclusion of more/unique 2hers, and a balance overhaul of 2h as a class. At the moment, the superior animations of 2hers coupled with the speed and generous damage output due not only to stats but also to speed bonus/ player techniques makes the bastard sword line the ultimate weapon for most combat situations the crpg-er will run into. In a group fight, you can effectively side swing, stab, and overhead. When faced with a shielder, most times you can out-speed them with double hits, out manouver them with footwork and reach, and throw out a kick if you're confident. Any one on one situation will tip the balance in the favor of the 2h bastard sword user. The 2her's mortal enemy, ranged, can be easily overcome by using a small shield.

      At the moment, there's no real reason for a 2h player to choose a weapon outside of the bastard sword class, unless they are going for a niche application. You don't necessarily have to nerf the bastard sword class, but please fix the 2h weapon selection.