Community Faction Design Contest - Commander Mode

[Blackzilla]

I think you did indeed do the totals wrong. For your cavalry I only get up to about 37k instead of 63k. I think the idea is you only add up the items they can use at one time. So if you have 2 horses, you use the mean price of these 2. They always use 1 melee weapon at a time, so if you have 3, you use the mean of those 3.

You can probably armour up quite a bit. 

Okay, thats what I thought you were supposed to do, but the medium tier armor can stay with stats like 30 STR and 27 ATH haha.

I was just bored and based the units off of my fellow clannies outfits/weps I've seen them use. Some of it is modified.

[Tydeus]

Sorry about updating this after so many proposals have been made, but we felt that an additional system might help achieve the desired effects. We knew there were a few things that we should really steer clear of; rather than having anyone waste time creating a design that we had no intentions of implementing, we decided to add more rules. Please update your proposals to adhere to the following system. Again, sorry for any inconvenience this caused but I really didn't want anyone's efforts to go to waste.

Faction Customization Ruleset
   

• 180000 gold cap.
• 14 unit points to spend.
• 5 different unit types.

   
    Unit type limitations:
   

• Maximum of 2 points from cavalry.
• Maximum of 2 archery/crossbow units.
• Minimum of 3 melee classes

    Each faction must follow these three Unit Points criteria:
   

• Minimum of one unit below than 2 points.
• Minimum of one unit with at least 4 points.
• Minimum of one unit between 2.5 and 3 points.

     
    Unit Points
     
    Horses
   

• Light Horse                                                           1
• Armored Horse                                                      2

    Armor (body armor + gloves)
   

• light                                                                       .5
• light-medium                      (armor > 25)               1
• medium                              (armor > 35)               1.5
• medium-heavy                   (armor > 44)                2
• heavy                                (armor > 53)                 2.5

    Weapons (take the mean value for weapons + any shield costs)
   

• light                                                                         .5
• medium                              (5K+)                             1
• heavy                                (10K+)                            1.5

[okiN]

I think my Legion already fills those requirements. Might be a bit over or under 14 points depending on how exactly you do the math on the weapons. Do you add bow and arrow costs together instead of taking the mean? How about multiple arrow stacks? Do you then take the mean of those and the melee weapon? Throwing and melee -- mean, or added up like with shields? Multiple throwing stacks?

Also, just want to check, when you say one troop has to be below 2 points, you really mean "below", not "at most"? So 1.5 or less? If that's the case then it might also be a sticking point.

[Everkistus]

I updated my Outcasts to match these requirement. I think you'll find the combination of fast archers, heavy shielders, cannonfodder non-shielders and heavy cavalry interesting.

http://forum.meleegaming.com/general-discussion/community-faction-design-contest-commander-mode/msg787461/#msg787461

[Teeth]

Alright, I'll get on it. Price does not correlate with effectiveness very well though, especially in the case of A.I. Even though a Flamberge is 3 times as expensive as a Longsword, I doubt the A.I. will do much better with it. Basically short fast weapons are the A.I.'s strong point, because of the tendency to facehug. Our pricing system is aimed at players. For example, equipping all your troops with Rondel Daggers will be dirt cheap, but probably highly effective. Even when they will probably only use the stab mode.

That is why I hope that whoever is going to balance these considers the effectiveness of the A.I. with a weapon rather than the price, and I really hope I don't have to change equipment because of this point thing. Otherwise my crossbow guys are going to get Rondel daggers for sure, because that is actually historically correct, cheap and effective.

Maximum of 2 points from cavalry? With an armoured horse being 2 points you can only put naked units on them?

[okiN]

Maximum of 2 points from cavalry? With an armoured horse being 2 points you can only put naked units on them?

Obviously he means you can only have one unit with heavy horses or two units with light ones at the most.

[Utrakil]

I think it was meant to be units instead of points.
We need this to be clear.

[Torp]

The Legion of Tartarus

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Eons ago, the great Titans were defeated by the Greek gods and banished to the dark deep abyss of Tartarus. Many long years have since passed, and the Titans have gathered a frightening legion of deadly troops to take revenge once and for all. The Olympians  that were their enemies are now long gone, but still remains the treacherous men who praised those very gods. Now the once fallen Titans have sent their Legion of death and destruction to Calradia to spread fear in the hearts of man and regain control of the vast lands of Calradia by decimating anyone stupid or ignorant enough to stand in their way. The Titans have each personally trained and prepared a squadron of blood-thirsty troops, eager to enter the battlefield and fulfill their destiny.
The Legion revolves around a core group of shielders as the main infantry group supported by efficient archers and cavalry. It will be very effective when the separate squadrons coordinate and play as one, but will be weak and vulnerable when spread out or facing heavy infantry units with shieldbreaking abilities. The Legion does not have havoc-wrecking infantry capabilities with only weak and lightly armored twohanders that will be very exposed when facing skilled archers and other ranged units.
These are the proposed classes:

The Archers of Crius:

(click to show/hide)

- long bow 11100
- 2 stacks of bodkins 2*5058
- Scale Armor 4527
- Scale Gauntlets 5165
- leather boots 345
- nordic fighter helmet 1775
- Soldier’s cleaver 3147
The archer squad is a strong group skilled at ranged but not horrible in melee either. They are part of the backbone of the army and crucial to the success of the Legion. They are, however, vulnerable to cavalry if left unprotected and will not be able to stand their own against groups of shielders.
Total weapon Cost: 24363
Total Armor cost: 11812
Total cost: 36175
Unit points: 3
27/24
9 pd
8 wm
7 athletics
7 ps
79 1h/168 archery wpf (idk about wpf calculations here?)

The Shielders of Iapetus:

(click to show/hide)

- Military cleaver 5655 or Iberian Mace 5582
-  Heavy Round Shield 4134
- Cuir Boulli 0ver Mail 10011
- Gauntlets 7307
- Splinted Leather Greaves over Mail 1817
- Barbutte 5645
The shielders are a reliable group of fighters and the main infantry of The Legion. Some of them wield high cut-damage cleavers while others wield knockdown maces for diversity and efficiency. They are very vulnerable to shieldbreakers and crushthrough.
Total Weapon Cost: 9752.5
Total Armor Cost: 24780
Total cost: 34532.5
Unit points: 3
24/24
8 ps
8 wm
7 athletics
8 shield
4 if
max 1h wpf

Hyperion's Hoplites:

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- Red tassel spear 6185
- Elite cavalry shield 3812
- Studded Leather over mail 7383
- Leather gloves 92
- Splinted Greaves with Spurs 2728
- Barbutte 5645
A support class that will be used with and are highly effective with the shielders. They are not very useful on their own, but they will be capable of fighting on their own as well.
Total Weapon Cost: 9997
Total armor cost: 16552
Total cost: 24846
Unit points: 2.5
21/27
7 shield
7 ps
9 wm
4 if
7 athletics
160 pole wpf/102 1h wpf

Cronus' Cavalry:

(click to show/hide)

- destrier 23470 or charger 52512
- lance 5474
- Knobbed mace 1287
- Heater shield 3105
- Light kuyak 6765
- Leather gloves 92
- rus shoes 92
- Nordic warlords helmet 4994
A reliable group of mounted fighters useful for backstabbing, breaking up melee or simply charging head-on. They can also fight on foot, but are of course most effective mounted. Vulnerable to pikes, hoplites and other pokey weapons as well as the much-feared downblock.
Total Weapon cost: 9866
Total Armor cost: 11943
Mean horse cost: 37991
Total cost: 59800
Unit points: 4
24/24
8 riding
8 ps
8 wm
6 shield
4 athletics
3 if
164 pole wpf/92 1h wpf

The Shield Breakers of Coeus:

(click to show/hide)

- Long Voulge 4836 or Mallet 5343
- Tribal Warrior Outfit 1569
- mail gauntlets 2074
- leather boots 345
- Horned Steppe Cap 78
The twohanders are useful for breaking shields or crushing through but otherwise not that great - very vulnerable and slow, but can be deadly; their main purpose is to disrupt potential shielder squads.
Total Weapon Cost: 5089.5
Total Armor Cost: 4066
Total cost: 9155.5
30/18
10 ps
6 athletics
6 wm
7 if
max 2h wpf/max polearm wpf
1.5/2.0 unit points
I don’t know how strict you are regarding the unit points; this is supposed to be the 1.5 point group, but mean weapon cost is 5090 which actually brings it to 2.0. If those weapon costs can be considered low enough for .5 points, keep it this way – otherwise switch the voulge for a Persian war axe.

Total army cost: 165509 gold
Total Army Unit Points: 14

The Legion is heavily teamwork-oriented and will have trouble when commanded by people who think they can just take their unit and walk to victory. It is, however, effective when commanders cooperate and designed for teamwork

This is of course open for suggestions and may be altered at some point in the future - but here is at least a 'first draft'; please let me know if there is something you think should be changed, both devs and fellow c-RPG players.

[okiN]

I think it was meant to be units instead of points.
We need this to be clear.

That part is perfectly clear.

Obviously he means you can only have one unit with heavy horses or two units with light ones at the most.

The only real ambiguity is on how the weapon cost stuff is all calculated, waiting for Tydeus to answer my questions on that. Also the "below 2" thing because it seems really low.

[Nessaj]

Look at the example "The Heroes" in the original post.

There's the gold limit, and, a unit points limit of 14.

Example:

Ranged/Hybrid division
Very lacking ranged capabilities, sub-par melee.
Armor Total: 7,453; 33 armor  1 point
Weapon Total: 4751; .5 points
Subtotal: 27,339 1.5 points

Which means he spent 1.5 unit points in total, and 27,339 gold.

The number, 33 armor and 1 point, comes from:   

• light                                                                       .5
• light-medium                      (armor > 25)               1
• medium                              (armor > 35)               1.5
• medium-heavy                   (armor > 44)                2
• heavy                                (armor > 53)                 2.5

Weapon Total: 4751 means the cost isn't above 5k = .5 unit points:   

• light                                                                         .5
• medium                              (5K+)                             1
• heavy                                (10K+)                            1.5

Regarding Horse Unit Points, basically any armored horse is 2 points which means you can only have that 1 unit as cavalry in your army. If you went with an unarmored horse (light horse) instead you can have two cavalry units in your army.

[Everkistus]

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Ard-Ghalan Horde

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A nomadic horde from foreign lands. Not much is known of them aside the fact that the spike on their helmets signals the strenght and rank of the individual in the horde. They rely heavily in ranged as every member of the horde is taught either how to shoot a bow or throw a spear from young age. Their tactics involve harassing the enemy on range and finishing them off with a charge of slave-soldiers followed by heavy infantry.

Pros:
+ Lots of ranged. May not do the best damage, but they'll spam like their lives depended on it.
+ Hard-hitting heavy-armor twohanders with short weapons. Backbone of the army.
+ All units aside from the armorcrutchers are fast. Easy to skirmish around the map.

Cons:
- Ranged uses non-piercing arrows. If they face heavy armor, they'll be in trouble.
- Light hybrid cavalry can't compete with heavy cavalry.

Total army cost of 156166 gold.
Unit points used:

(click to show/hide)

Strong ranged hybrid:
1,5 unit points for armor
1,5 unit points for weapons

Weak ranged hybrid:
1,0 points for armor
1,0 points for weapons

Twohanders:
2,0 points for armor
1,0 points for weapons

Shielders:
1,5 points for armor
1,0 points for weapons

Hybrid cavalry:
1,0 points for armor
1,5 points for weapons
1,0 points from horse

Hunter: A celebrated ranger of the horde, excelling both at melee and ranged.

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Tagancha Helmet, 4,115 gold
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Studded Leather over Mail, 7,383 gold
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Leather Gloves, 92 gold
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Rus Cavalry Boots, 412 gold
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Long Bow, 11,100 gold
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Arrows, 161 gold
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One Handed Battle Axe, 6,318 gold

Total cost of armor: 12002 gold
Total cost of weapons: 17579 gold
Total cost: 29581 gold

    Strength: 18
    Agility: 27

    Unused attribute points: 3

    Converted: 6
    Ironflesh: 5
    Power Strike: 6
    Athletics: 9
    Power Draw: 6
    Weapon Master: 9

    One Handed: 88
    Archery: 180

Trapper: A novice ranger on his way to hunter. Still hasn't figured out how to shoot a bow so uses a crossbow.

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Rus Helmet, 2,890 gold
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Nomad Vest, 633 gold
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Heavy Gauntlets, 16,303 gold
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Leather Boots, 345 gold
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Light Crossbow, 5,596 gold
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Bolts, 193 gold gold
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Military Fork, 3,273 gold

Total cost of armor: 20171 gold
Total cost of weapons: 9062 gold
Total cost: 29233 gold

    Strength: 20
    Agility: 30

    Converted: 10
    Ironflesh: 5
    Power Strike: 6
    Athletics: 10
    Weapon Master: 10

    Polearm: 147
    Crossbow: 160

Camp guards: Heavily armored elite warriors of the horde. Clad in exotic armors from foreign lands.

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Litchina Helm, 6,723 gold
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Sipahi Yawshan, 14,655 gold
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Mail Gauntlets, 2,074 gold
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Plated Boots, 2,476 gold
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War Darts, 1,507 gold
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War Darts, 1,507 gold
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Persian Battle Axe, 6,132 gold
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Morningstar, 6,648 gold
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Long Iron Mace, 5,662 gold

Total cost of armor: 25928 gold
Average cost of weapons (2 stacks and melee weapon): 9161 gold
Total cost: 35089 gold

    Strength: 27
    Agility: 21

    Converted: 6
    Ironflesh: 9
    Power Strike: 9
    Athletics: 7
    Power Throw: 3
    Weapon Master: 7

    Two Handed: 147
    Throwing: 120

Slave conscript: Conscrips that are given an option: Die on your feet or earn your place in the horde through battle.

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Bascinet, 3,847 gold
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Mail Hauberk, 4,239 gold
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Mail Mittens, 1,086 gold
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Mail Chausses, 1,290 gold
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War Darts, 1507 gold
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War Darts, 1507 gold
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Winged Mace, 4,193 gold
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Brown Kite Shield, 2,742 gold

Total cost of armor: 10462 gold
Total cost of weapons: 9949 gold
Total cost: 20411 gold

    Strength: 21
    Agility: 24

    Ironflesh: 7
    Power Strike: 7
    Shield: 6
    Athletics: 8
    Power Throw: 5
    Weapon Master: 8

    One Handed: 151
    Throwing: 130

Raider: A skirmisher cavalry unit riding a fast horse.

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Spiked Cap, 1,480 gold
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Nomad Robe, 1,842 gold
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Scale Gauntlets, 5,165 gold
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Nomad Boots, 236 gold
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Horn Bow, 7,896 gold
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Tatar Arrows, 2,899 gold
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Tatar Arrows, 2,899 gold
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Shortened Spear, 1,577 gold
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Courser, 19,838 gold

Total cost of armor: 8723 gold
Total cost of weapons: 13271 gold
Horse: 19838 gold
Total cost: 41832 gold

   Strength: 21
    Agility: 24

    Ironflesh: 7
    Power Strike: 7
    Riding: 8
    Horse Archery: 4
    Power Draw: 7
    Weapon Master: 8

    Polearm: 116
    Archery: 160

[Gnjus]

A stereotyphical evil faction. You can probably guess which cRPG clan this one is based on. If you can't, you're an imbecile.

Bandits or Nords ? Cause those were the only truly evil clans in this mod.

(click to show/hide)

[okiN]

Nords are Lawful Neutral.

[Teeth]

Updated my faction, I think every rule is adhered to. Had to scale down a lot on armour and weapons, but still pretty satisfied with the end result. Also made some better troop descriptions to make their intended role a little clearer to the balancer.

http://forum.meleegaming.com/general-discussion/community-faction-design-contest-commander-mode/msg787276/#msg787276

That part is perfectly clear.

Says you. I presume you are right in your interpretation of this, but cavalry does in fact mean the unit as a whole including horse and rider. So it should simply be changed to no more than 2 unit points worth of horses to avoid confusion.

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Ard-Ghalan Horde
A nomadic horde from foreign lands. Every member of the horde is taught either how to shoot a bow or throw a spear.

Total army cost of 156102 gold.
Unit points used:

(click to show/hide)

Strong ranged hybrid:
1,5 unit points for armor
1,5 unit points for weapons

Weak ranged hybrid:
1,0 points for armor
1,0 points for weapons

Twohanders:
2,0 points for armor
1,0 points for weapons

Shielders:
1,5 points for armor
1,0 points for weapons

Hybrid cavalry:
1,0 points for armor
1,5 points for weapons
1,0 points from horse

Hunter: A celebrated ranger of the horde, excelling both at melee and ranged.

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Tagancha Helmet, 4,115 gold
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Studded Leather over Mail, 7,383 gold
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Leather Gloves, 92 gold
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Rus Cavalry Boots, 412 gold
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Long Bow, 11,100 gold
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Arrows, 161 gold
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One Handed Battle Axe, 6,318 gold

Total cost of armor: 12002 gold
Total cost of weapons: 17579 gold
Total cost: 29581 gold

    Strength: 18
    Agility: 27

    Unused attribute points: 3

    Converted: 6
    Ironflesh: 5
    Power Strike: 6
    Athletics: 9
    Power Draw: 6
    Weapon Master: 9

    One Handed: 88
    Archery: 180

Trapper: An experienced ranger on his way to hunter. Not quite there yet.

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Rus Helmet, 2,890 gold
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Nomad Vest, 633 gold
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Heavy Gauntlets, 16,303 gold
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Leather Boots, 345 gold
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Tatar Bow, 5,974 gold
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Arrows, 161 gold
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Arrows, 161 gold
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Light One Handed Battle Axe, 3,435 gold

Total cost of armor: 20171 gold
Total cost of weapons: 9731 gold
Total cost: 29902 gold

    Strength: 18
    Agility: 27

    Unused attribute points: 3

    Converted: 6
    Ironflesh: 5
    Power Strike: 6
    Athletics: 9
    Power Draw: 6
    Weapon Master: 9

    One Handed: 88
    Archery: 180

Camp guards: Heavily armored warriors of the horde. Clad in exotic armors from foreign lands.

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Varangopoulos Bascinet, 5,990 gold
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Sipahi Yawshan, 14,655 gold
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Mail Gauntlets, 2,074 gold
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Plated Boots, 2,476 gold
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War Darts, 1,507 gold
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War Darts, 1,507 gold
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Persian Battle Axe, 6,132 gold
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Morningstar, 6,648 gold
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Long Iron Mace, 5,662 gold

Total cost of armor: 25195 gold
Average cost of weapons (2 stacks and melee weapon): 9161 gold
Total cost: 34356 gold

    Strength: 27
    Agility: 21

    Converted: 6
    Ironflesh: 9
    Power Strike: 9
    Athletics: 7
    Power Throw: 3
    Weapon Master: 7

    Two Handed: 147
    Throwing: 120

Slave conscript: Conscrips that are given an option: Die on your feet or earn your place in the horde through battle.

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Bascinet, 3,847 gold
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Mail Hauberk, 4,239 gold
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Mail Mittens, 1,086 gold
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Mail Chausses, 1,290 gold
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War Darts, 1507 gold
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War Darts, 1507 gold
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Winged Mace, 4,193 gold
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Brown Kite Shield, 2,742 gold

Total cost of armor: 10462 gold
Total cost of weapons: 9949 gold
Total cost: 20411 gold

    Strength: 21
    Agility: 24

    Ironflesh: 7
    Power Strike: 7
    Shield: 6
    Athletics: 8
    Power Throw: 5
    Weapon Master: 8

    One Handed: 151
    Throwing: 130

Raider: A skirmisher cavalry unit riding a fast horse.

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Spiked Cap, 1,480 gold
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Nomad Robe, 1,842 gold
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Scale Gauntlets, 5,165 gold
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Nomad Boots, 236 gold
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Horn Bow, 7,896 gold
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Tatar Arrows, 2,899 gold
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Tatar Arrows, 2,899 gold
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Shortened Spear, 1,577 gold
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Courser, 19,838 gold

Total cost of armor: 8723 gold
Total cost of weapons: 13271 gold
Horse: 19838 gold
Total cost: 41832 gold

   Strength: 21
    Agility: 24

    Ironflesh: 7
    Power Strike: 7
    Riding: 8
    Horse Archery: 4
    Power Draw: 7
    Weapon Master: 8

    Polearm: 116
    Archery: 160

Strange and unusual faction, love it. You do seem to lack a 4 point class however.

[Everkistus]

Strange and unusual faction, love it. You do seem to lack a 4 point class however.

Thanks mate! However, I'm not sure what you mean by a 4-point class?