Nemesis of Horses, Polearm Thrust

[Ronin]

Please read the whole post. I'm not whining about polearm thrusts. There's just one thing that is bothering me.

The problem with pole thrusts are, they stop horses no matter what is the damage dealt. Even 1-2 damage dealt to a plated charger is enough for the rider to be fucked up. This seems ridiculous to me. It is both unrealistic and unbalanced.

Let's say I am a cavalry and riding a mamluke horse (in fact this is true) and I see a pikeman/hoplite unaware of me. Let's say I decided to take the risk and charge him from behind. He didn't see me coming until the latest moment. Then he realized that he is about to be ass-raped and turned towards me. In a desperate hope to stop my horse, he attacked my horse and tickled my horse with his long stick. The result= my mamluke horse recieved 1 damage but somehow insta-stopped. Then I find myself to be caressed by the angry mob/arrows within a couple of seconds.

I don't think this is the result I deserved. In this game I have never seen such a class to have that much superiority over another class. Even no-shielded characters can dodge or hide against arrows, or can hybridize to get small shields/throwing weapons. In such a case I have no option but to charge on (or maybe dismount but that kills the purpose of playing cavalry).

I'd say it can be better if polearms need to do some damage first to stop a horse. I understand that if I get enough damage I should be fucked up as a cavalry. I certainly deserve that in such a case. But there has to be a damage cap. Maybe anything that hurts higher than 5% hp should stop my horse, but anything lower than 5% should not.

[bruce]

You can shoot him with a crossbow from horseback.

Or dismount and fight on foot. At least you don't have to press w to walk to battle, so your 2000+ gold upkeep was well spent.

[Byrdi]

(Heavy) cav have just as good an advantage over 1h players with low/medium armour as pikemen have against cavalry.
Cavalry should avoid pikemen as much as low armoured guys should avoid stepping out in the open when there are cav around.

Also, it is good thing that they rear even if the trust glances. I find that you just end up missing horse by an inch, because they can just slow down right before you thrust (this is often the case with shorter (160+) polearms).

All classes have a natural counter part and cavalry are far from bad off in this.

[BlindGuy]

Yes, lets do what OP says, but remove horsebump. Seems fair exchange.

[bruce]

Leave spears alone, remove the ability to survive horsebump!

[BlindGuy]

Leave spears alone, remove the ability to survive horsebump!

Only if the damage is ramped up SO much that teammates insta die aswell, or it will just be a case of ride thru flattening everything, knowing the enemies will die.

[bruce]

Only if the damage is ramped up SO much that teammates insta die aswell, or it will just be a case of ride thru flattening everything, knowing the enemies will die.

Of course!

Any flattened peasant is a job well done for the mounted gentry, there is absolutely no reason to discriminate.

[BlindGuy]

 

[Berserkadin]

I think the devs made it this way so even a low level peasant in unloomed gear can do some use on the battlefield.

[Ronin]

I suppose you didn't calculate it carefully.

What I suggested won't make low level peasants not be able to stop cavalry. Even a lvl 10 guy with a spear can do some damage to a horse easily with a bit of timing or speed bonus. And if they can do some damage of course that should be rewarded. But if a spearman don't even have a clue about timing and can't damage the horse, should not be able to stop it. What is so wrong with that?

[Grumpy_Nic]

I suppose you didn't calculate it carefully.

What I suggested won't make low level peasants not be able to stop cavalry. Even a lvl 10 guy with a spear can do some damage to a horse easily with a bit of timing or speed bonus. And if they can do some damage of course that should be rewarded. But if a spearman don't even have a clue about timing and can't damage the horse, should not be able to stop it. What is so wrong with that?

Actually you're right.
Even a lowlvl peasant with a scythe SHOULD deal a significant amount of dmg to whatever horse is charging him if he stabs it in the face. Remove no-dmg stabs to horses. Add a minimum damage of 40HP for stopped horses.

[Gurnisson]

Considering how many times the shield of a horseman sucks up the damage from a perfectly placed pike in the horse's head, for the cavalry to continue at full speed and taking 20-30 % of the piker's health with a bump, the low damage thrust is the last to worry about. I played a lot of cavalry on my main btw, and that shield shit was terribly broken, more so than the low damage thrusts that rear horses.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

The thrust is REALLY easy to deal with if you know how, especially for heavy cav, it really doesn't need a nerf.

[Ronin]

Actually you're right.
Even a lowlvl peasant with a scythe SHOULD deal a significant amount of dmg to whatever horse is charging him if he stabs it in the face. Remove no-dmg stabs to horses. Add a minimum damage of 40HP for stopped horses.

Clearly a misunderstanding I see.

I'm not talking about idiotic head on charges, I'm talking about...

ah forget it. I explained like 2 times.

Considering how many times the shield of a horseman sucks up the damage from a perfectly placed pike in the horse's head, for the cavalry to continue at full speed and taking 20-30 % of the piker's health with a bump, the low damage thrust is the last to worry about. I played a lot of cavalry on my main btw, and that shield shit was terribly broken, more so than the low damage thrusts that rear horses.

That is indeed broken. So what? Your argument is to keep 2 broken things because they balance each other out in a sense?

The thrust is REALLY easy to deal with if you know how, especially for heavy cav, it really doesn't need a nerf.

Hmm... Can you explain how? Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

[Gurnisson]

So what? Your argument is to keep 2 broken things because they balance each other out in a sense?

They balance each other a bit out, yes. The bug with shield forcefield from horseback has been there for an eternity and I doubt anything is going to happen to it.

In this game I have never seen such a class to have that much superiority over another class.

If you dismount he's at a big disadvantage with his 3 slot weapon which is garbage for 1v1. You can ride your horse slowly and take a hit to the side of your horse (instead of the front which will rear you) and slash/stab him while he's recovering from his thrust. You can kill unaware pikers easily, killing a piker with one other friendly cav or infantry is also easy. And considering horses ram through pikes from time to time, I wonder what why you class it as such a hard counter.