hoplite needs a serious nerf

[Shemaforash]

Also chambers.

There is a different timing since they hit earlier than they are supposed to in the original animation. This causes chambering to be fucked up

[Teeth]

hoplite stabs were buffed by letting them connect earlier in the animation.

Once again you are ascribing qualities to hoplites exclusively that go for other weapons as well, including your precious long awlpike. Pretty much all stabs can connect early in the animation, or the so called instastab. I can do it with a pike, a longspear, an ashwood with shield, an ashwood without shield, a long awlpike and a Danish. Same technique applies to all. In fact it is harder the longer a weapon gets, instastabbing is easier with a long awlpike than an ashwood pike with shield, fact. It's just that you don't need it as much. Sure some good players can do instastabs quite consistently, but 80% of the scrubs who also play hoplite now don't even dare to try. Hell, I've played long stab polearm for like a 1000 hours now and I still fail like 30% of my kickstabs.

a ashwood pike can litterally hit on facehug distance if you curve your stab enough

Wanna see me do it with a longspear or a long awlpike, this is not unique. The only weapon which cannot possibly stab at facehug distance is the pike, because it simply has no hitbox for the first meter in front of the user. Yet with correct movement you can kickstab with a pike, it's a challenge but so rewarding when you pull it off.

But I agree, hoplite, well specifically ashwood pike hoplite is somewhat overpowered. The reason it outshines stab weapons I class in the same class, longspears and pikes, is because of the turn rate. Playing longspear or pike feels extremely clunky and dumbed down, it turns so slow it is simply not fun to play. Ashwood however got faster turning, making it a lot more fun to play and a lot more effective. Turn rate is simply a huge deal for the effectiveness of stab weapons. If a rebalance of hoplite is going to happen I hope longspear and especially the pike can get a slight buff, preferably to their turn rate.

Just "un-fix" the stabs. I don't remember those facehug stabs being possible prior to the turn rate nerf. Sure you could wiggle them instead, but that was slower to hit.

Indeed, the stab change after the turn rate nerf broke stabbing for all weapons, not just hoplites. There was a minimum time animations required before they hit, which was always the same. You could chamber based on timing, because you knew how long it would take for the stab to hit. While we are at it, remove the turn rate, in these times of perfect blocking faster turn rates spice the dumbed down combat up a little.

[no_rules_just_play]

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Once again you are ascribing qualities to hoplites exclusively that go for other weapons as well, including your precious long awlpike. Pretty much all stabs can connect early in the animation, or the so called instastab. I can do it with a pike, a longspear, an ashwood with shield, an ashwood without shield, a long awlpike and a Danish. Same technique applies to all. In fact it is harder the longer a weapon gets, instastabbing is easier with a long awlpike than an ashwood pike with shield, fact. It's just that you don't need it as much. Sure some good players can do instastabs quite consistently, but 80% of the scrubs who also play hoplite now don't even dare to try. Hell, I've played long stab polearm for like a 1000 hours now and I still fail like 30% of my kickstabs.
Wanna see me do it with a longspear or a long awlpike, this is not unique. The only weapon which cannot possibly stab at facehug distance is the pike, because it simply has no hitbox for the first meter in front of the user. Yet with correct movement you can kickstab with a pike, it's a challenge but so rewarding when you pull it off.

But I agree, hoplite, well specifically ashwood pike hoplite is somewhat overpowered. The reason it outshines stab weapons I class in the same class, longspears and pikes, is because of the turn rate. Playing longspear or pike feels extremely clunky and dumbed down, it turns so slow it is simply not fun to play. Ashwood however got faster turning, making it a lot more fun to play and a lot more effective. Turn rate is simply a huge deal for the effectiveness of stab weapons. If a rebalance of hoplite is going to happen I hope longspear and especially the pike can get a slight buff, preferably to their turn rate.
Indeed, the stab change after the turn rate nerf broke stabbing for all weapons, not just hoplites. There was a minimum time animations required before they hit, which was always the same. You could chamber based on timing, because you knew how long it would take for the stab to hit. While we are at it, remove the turn rate, in these times of perfect blocking faster turn rates spice the dumbed down combat up a little.

im happy we somewhat agree, however i would like to repeat that i am aware that also normal polearms can stab from this close. However, they dont benefit the same reach.

[ROHYPNOL]

Everyone knows if you cannot melee or do anything else, grab a poke stick.

[Gravoth_iii]

I find hitting early in animation a nerf more than a buff, it always glances for me and can barely interrupt my attacks because they hit too early. Hoplite doesnt need nerf, its just an effective class as its suppose to be.

[MrShine]

down block etc.

I don't think much (if any) nerf is needed... if anything a slight damage reduction could be called for. 

Pike/Long spears sacrifice some survivability (shield) for increased range.
Hoplites have more survivability at the cost of reach & build (they have to invest points into shield where a straight pikeman can access a higher 'tier' of agi or str).

Both are generally easy to fight when isolated in 1v1.  I don't think there's really much of a problem.

[Ronin]

No nerf just play

[Konrax]

I find personally when I enter into stab battles with hoplites that they can be faster then I am with slower speed rating weapons.

I use a mw broad short sword and have 7wm and 164 wpf in 1h.

It appears that hopelites can spam very easily instead of actually having to time their attacks like other classes.

I would like to see a reduction to the speed at which they can stab, otherwise working as intended.

[Spa_geh_tea]

Hoplites OP.....lol

Top 10 troll thread.

[Grumbs]

I don't think the problem is Hoplite is too strong, its more like people fell out of favour with other poles and hoplites are fotm atm. You get the omni block of 1 handers and anti ranged, and 2 d poles don't really bring as much to the table

Its also a case of whatever Byzantium is using is suddenly OP. If chase goes 1 hander + shield you will say 1 handers are OP

[bruce]

I don't think the problem is Hoplite is too strong, its more like people fell out of favour with other poles and hoplites are fotm atm. You get the omni block of 1 handers and anti ranged, and 2 d poles don't really bring as much to the table

Its also a case of whatever Byzantium is using is suddenly OP. If chase goes 1 hander + shield you will say 1 handers are OP

The truth.

Besides, if you want a melee class which can cope with both horses and ranged (and horse ranged) hoplite is quite good at this.

There's not even -that many- of them, but a few prominent players are playing it and they see them on top of scoreboard and deduce it is OP.

[no_rules_just_play]

if there is hardly a counter to a class, it is considered too strong. Very low skill players can still use hoplite and be effective enough, not as strong as teeth, knitler and others but still too effective for their skill level. Nobody likes to be killed by some stupid game mechanic that obviously gives the edge to a certain class. You cant stab from a distance because they have the lenght bonus and if you stab from very close they have that shitty intsastab.
the problem is not that they have insta stab or very big reach or no need for manual blocking. Its the combination of ALL these things, that combination beats every other class.

[Molly]

I have to say that I don't think that they are that strong really. Downblock wins...

They are only mean if you meet more than one of them. As soon you attack the one guy, the other will stab and vice versa. Meeting one alone or several enemies with 1 hoplite ain't that much of a problem really.

Maybe it's different with a stabby weapon but afaik even those have down block, don't they?

Nope, can't see the issue from my PoV... so, I am moving on.

[Mlekce]

Hoplites are good in crowd fights, but shit at fighting alone vs >= 1 enemy.
Seems pretty balanced overall, I see no reason to nerf them. Stab got buffed indeed, but it also applies for pikes etc, even 1h stab is usable now.

This is not true,and that is what is the problem.
If y defend it is easy,just down block,but if y try to kill him he insta stab you unless you move in right and do overhead.

[Berserkadin]

Hoplites are beatable, especielly if the hoplite ain't a pro. Just try to use that big fat thing between your ears. 2d polearm's could need some sort of buff tough, since they got all weird after turn-rate changes.