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[Gnjus]

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P.S.

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You're all wrong, it is a plain random generic shark. 

[Kafein]

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You racist, this white cunt man shouldn't be presented next to the glorious superior and oppressed minorities.

[Tomas]

Well, once the "liaison" or "community proxy" is chosen, that issue will be solved. Steps do seem to be being made in the correct direction, just slowly.

I'm not sure one person is going to be able to solve this issue especially given they won't have any real power.  Personally I would say that there need to be the following setup (closely based on chadz' previously posted setup).

1) Head of Support
Role:
- Appointing and monitoring Admins, Moderators and Technical Support officers
- Prioritization of bugs to be fixed by devs with the authority to ask for urgent fixes
- designing the processes by which Admins, Moderators and Tech Support officers work
- requesting coded processes from devs if absolutely needed
Numbers: 1

2) Admins (still with Head Admins)
Role:
- handling bans, unbans and other punishments
- policing irc, forums and servers
- helping new players
- reporting bugs
Numbers: 5-10?

3) Moderators
Role:
- helping new players
- policing irc, forums and servers
- reporting issues to admins for further action if needed
- reporting bugs
Numbers: lots, the more the better

4) Technical Support
Role:
- fixing technical issues
- name changes
- offering advice for players having technical difficulties
- reporting bugs
Numbers: 4-6

You will notice that the day to day stuff is handled by the roles with lots of people doing the work.  The Head role is more of a liaising, monitoring and fire fighting role.  They have no extra powers so if they go on holiday or afk, a designated deputy can take their place temporarily.

Everything to do with new features and patches is then handled by the dev team (& item balancers) and its up to the devs to continue reading forums for good ideas.  Devs don't get involved in admin decisions though.  With enough time and discipline sticking to roles, I would hope that the devs can start posting a bit more in the forums without being hounded over admin and bug fix decisions

[Tennenoth]

I'm not sure one person is going to be able to solve this issue especially given they won't have any real power.  Personally I would say that there need to be the following setup (closely based on chadz' previously posted setup).

1) Head of Support
Role:
- Appointing and monitoring Admins, Moderators and Technical Support officers
- Prioritization of bugs to be fixed by devs with the authority to ask for urgent fixes
- designing the processes by which Admins, Moderators and Tech Support officers work
- requesting coded processes from devs if absolutely needed
Numbers: 1

2) Admins (still with Head Admins)
Role:
- handling bans, unbans and other punishments
- policing irc, forums and servers
- helping new players
- reporting bugs
Numbers: 5-10?

3) Moderators
Role:
- helping new players
- policing irc, forums and servers
- reporting issues to admins for further action if needed
- reporting bugs
Numbers: lots, the more the better

4) Technical Support
Role:
- fixing technical issues
- name changes
- offering advice for players having technical difficulties
- reporting bugs
Numbers: 4-6

You will notice that the day to day stuff is handled by the roles with lots of people doing the work.  The Head role is more of a liaising, monitoring and fire fighting role.  They have no extra powers so if they go on holiday or afk, a designated deputy can take their place temporarily.

Everything to do with new features and patches is then handled by the dev team (& item balancers) and its up to the devs to continue reading forums for good ideas.  Devs don't get involved in admin decisions though.  With enough time and discipline sticking to roles, I would hope that the devs can start posting a bit more in the forums without being hounded over admin and bug fix decisions

I was talking about the lack of communication issue to be honest. A slight hint of irony there.

[Grumbs]

Seems pretty obvious that Badplayer should get a similar ban to whoever else gets banned for racism. The whole concept of racism only applying to specific races is racist in itself.

So either ban anyone being racist regardless of race or don't ban anyone for racism. Pretty simple. Anyone who thinks otherwise should not be in a position to deal out punishments

[Armpit_Sweat]

You're all wrong, it is a plain random generic shark. 

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[RamsesXXIIX]

Shik is the only reason I might regret my investment in M:BG.

[Tomas]

I was talking about the lack of communication issue to be honest. A slight hint of irony there.

Is it good communication to use a 3rd person to run messages between 2 people??

[Tennenoth]

Is it good communication to use a 3rd person to run messages between 2 people??

In this case, yes. There is a complete lack of communication now, and that is because there are too many voices in my opinion. If there is a go between, and the developers have set that up specifically to more or less force themselves to communicate (consolidate the mass of voices into one clear and concise one) then the chances are higher that the general population gains more information and contact.

Now there are just loads of people screaming about random things, with one person sifting through it and saying "this is useful, this is not" then there is less gunk getting in the way, with the pressure of one person doing their job set by the developers, they'll be more willing to answer.

Since there is very little to begin with, I don't know how much I can stress that making it easier for both parties will increase the chances of actually getting more.

[Tomas]

In this case, yes. There is a complete lack of communication now, and that is because there are too many voices in my opinion. If there is a go between, and the developers have set that up specifically to more or less force themselves to communicate (consolidate the mass of voices into one clear and concise one) then the chances are higher that the general population gains more information and contact.

Now there are just loads of people screaming about random things, with one person sifting through it and saying "this is useful, this is not" then there is less gunk getting in the way, with the pressure of one person doing their job set by the developers, they'll be more willing to answer.

Since there is very little to begin with, I don't know how much I can stress that making it easier for both parties will increase the chances of actually getting more.

I disagree.  Whoever gets appointed will not be consolidating the mass of voices, they will be reading and then reforming those opinions based on their own opinions, judgement and personality even on a subconscious level.  There is no guarantee that the proxy will actually represent the community at all.  Far better that the devs read for themselves and form their own opinions.

Also - What will happen is that people will ask the community proxy something but then if they don't get a quick enough response or the answer they want they will just go and ask the person that they think the community proxy asked.

If I report a bug to the Head of Support and they turn around and immediately make a decision and tell me "thanks for the report, we know about it but it is a very low priority and is unlikely to be fixed soon" then I know that's it.

If i report a bug to a community proxy who says "Thanks for the report i'll ask a dev about it" then the next day I will ask the proxy if they have heard anything back.  The day after that I will ask again and be told "its not a priority and so won't be fixed" but I will question whether or not I am being fobbed off and so will attempt to circumvent the proxy for a direct answer from a dev and in this way everything breaks down.


The problem right now is that Devs essentially do or are jointly responsible for everything, even the stuff they don't like.  This means that whenever they enter the public realm they are harangued from all directions about all sorts of issues that they don't care about or don't want to have to care about.  This means they stop communicating over the stuff they do like to do.

Cut down their responsibilities and give authority to the community proxy (Head of Support as I called them) to make decisions on the stuff they have responsibility for.  Then people will go to the community proxy for community proxy stuff, to devs for dev stuff, admins for admin stuff and tech support for tech support stuff.  And if they do happen to go to the wrong person then a clear system will allow a quick 1 sentence response sending them to the correct person.

It is a massive failing of western society that we always treat the symptoms and never the source of problems

[CrazyCracka420]

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You're all wrong, it is a plain random generic shark. 

Pro Wrestling was a great fucking NES game

[Tennenoth]

I disagree.  Whoever gets appointed will not be consolidating the mass of voices, they will be reading and then reforming those opinions based on their own opinions, judgement and personality even on a subconscious level.  There is no guarantee that the proxy will actually represent the community at all.  Far better that the devs read for themselves and form their own opinions.

Also - What will happen is that people will ask the community proxy something but then if they don't get a quick enough response or the answer they want they will just go and ask the person that they think the community proxy asked.

If I report a bug to the Head of Support and they turn around and immediately make a decision and tell me "thanks for the report, we know about it but it is a very low priority and is unlikely to be fixed soon" then I know that's it.

If i report a bug to a community proxy who says "Thanks for the report i'll ask a dev about it" then the next day I will ask the proxy if they have heard anything back.  The day after that I will ask again and be told "its not a priority and so won't be fixed" but I will question whether or not I am being fobbed off and so will attempt to circumvent the proxy for a direct answer from a dev and in this way everything breaks down.


The problem right now is that Devs essentially do or are jointly responsible for everything, even the stuff they don't like.  This means that whenever they enter the public realm they are harangued from all directions about all sorts of issues that they don't care about or don't want to have to care about.  This means they stop communicating over the stuff they do like to do.

Cut down their responsibilities and give authority to the community proxy (Head of Support as I called them) to make decisions on the stuff they have responsibility for.  Then people will go to the community proxy for community proxy stuff, to devs for dev stuff, admins for admin stuff and tech support for tech support stuff.  And if they do happen to go to the wrong person then a clear system will allow a quick 1 sentence response sending them to the correct person.

It is a massive failing of western society that we always treat the symptoms and never the source of problems

I'll try and address this in sections.

Biased: The proxy should point towards issues that they believe to be important, send links to threads and such like and ask questions pertaining to them, you're never going to get an unbiased set from it but at least you're going to get something - without them, there are too many people trying to chase things up, which the developers will just close down to.

Circumventing the proxy - Then you should be ignored, the support people, I do not believe, shouldn't be dealing with technical problems to begin with anyway, they should be helping with getting peoples accounts back and what not and not developing, so that's a different thing entirely. If you're trying to contact the developers directly, you'll probably get much the same "nothingness" that you get these days, so it would be fruitless.

Developers "likes & dislikes" - The proxy will be able to target things specifically, making things more manageable. There won't just be a torrent of rubbish.

I'm now confused on your usage of "head of support" - the system that was set out already (people having already applied for positions) had the a community proxy and the support as totally different things, which is what I have been running on throughout this conversation.

Trying to remove some of the issues will always allow for a clearer view of what happens so that we can improve, I see it personally as a television, there is just a load of white noise currently, static, nothing discernible, as we strip away the rubbish there is a picture behind it, we need someone to sift through the signals to unearth that picture. Then things can be sorted, categorised and eventually improved upon. One clear voice will help us do that.

[Arathian]

About badplayer, is it fine to be that stupid ?

Evidence :

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http://forum.meleegaming.com/global/irc-unban/msg742654/#msg742654
http://forum.meleegaming.com/game-admin-feedback/%28global%29-shik/msg741521/#msg741521
http://forum.meleegaming.com/game-admin-feedback/%28global%29-shik/msg741821/#msg741821

Apparently it is.

BADPLAYER made similar statements in IRC after which Shik proceeded to ban 3 people, none of whom being BADPLAYER.

Meh, admin communication does need some serious improvements.

[Wesleysnipes]

Shik is the only reason I might regret my investment in M:BG.

I agree. And there is nothing we can do! Parleyyyyyy chadz! Don't be out of da gourd!

[Kaoklai]