Author Topic: Banner "balancer", valour, multiplier & looms  (Read 3547 times)

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Offline Alexander_TheGreat_

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Re: Banner "balancer", valour, multiplier & looms
« Reply #45 on: April 09, 2013, 01:14:29 am »
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Isn't Vidar a shielder? :P and lol, misunderstood.  :lol:

well it just turns him into a dick with a condom on! =)
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Offline Kafein

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Re: Banner "balancer", valour, multiplier & looms
« Reply #46 on: April 09, 2013, 01:16:17 am »
+3
The problems with the multiplier system are countless and widely accepted, I won't cover that.

Banner balance only doesn't work because it makes the existing weaknesses of the autobalancer more apparent. The concept of banner balance isn't a problem, it's just that the current autobalancer isn't working very well and people attribute that to clan stacking while a better balancer would put more people in the other team to make up for a clanstack.

Offline Sniger

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Re: Banner "balancer", valour, multiplier & looms
« Reply #47 on: April 09, 2013, 01:19:12 am »
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Vidar is like the angry bully at school who starts to complain about homework getting too difficult. :-*

oh my oh my if it isn't the infamous Bjord what have you been doing I haven't seen you online for quite a while?

edit: oh you refuse to answer my question, sadface :C but pls quit the trolling too then. tnx
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 01:42:24 am by Sniger »

Offline Joseph Porta

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Re: Banner "balancer", valour, multiplier & looms
« Reply #48 on: April 09, 2013, 01:19:21 am »
0
You make one major mistake, you assume that we do tactics and stuff when we sit together in ts, we leave this part to byzants, we are just an angry mob when we play with many ppl online ^^
Needs more pitchforks tho ashwood pikes too OP
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Re: Banner "balancer", valour, multiplier & looms
« Reply #49 on: April 09, 2013, 01:22:13 am »
+1
we only have 1 ashwood pike in the armory but no pitchforkes  :cry:
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Offline Joseph Porta

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Re: Banner "balancer", valour, multiplier & looms
« Reply #50 on: April 09, 2013, 01:36:23 am »
0
The problems with the multiplier system are countless and widely accepted, I won't cover that.

Banner balance only doesn't work because it makes the existing weaknesses of the autobalancer more apparent. The concept of banner balance isn't a problem, it's just that the current autobalancer isn't working very well and people attribute that to clan stacking while a better balancer would put more people in the other team to make up for a clanstack.

With some sort of ratio to it? Example
Banner team - pug team
10banners.   - 3 extra players
20banners.   - 6 extra players

Start working from certain amount of banners(i dont think that small grouos made up from say 5-6 players should be effecting the balance, only major groups of banners) I chose 10 here for example.

Ofcourse youll have stacking vs stacking.. Allright so ill try to explain what i think..

Team1.                  10 banner. 20 banner
T2bonus.                3 player.    6 player
Negate eachother:  0 extra.     0 extra
Team2                   10 banner. 20 banner
T1bonus.                3 player.    6 player

So if T1 had 10 banners and T2 20, T1 would get 3 extra players. If both had 10 neither would get bonus. Ofc all the numbers here are random but just to show the concept, cant put it in words sry :P
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Offline Korgoth

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Re: Banner "balancer", valour, multiplier & looms
« Reply #51 on: April 09, 2013, 01:53:09 am »
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Offline Thomek

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Re: Banner "balancer", valour, multiplier & looms
« Reply #52 on: April 09, 2013, 02:20:00 am »
+2
The problems with the multiplier system are countless and widely accepted, I won't cover that.

Banner balance only doesn't work because it makes the existing weaknesses of the autobalancer more apparent. The concept of banner balance isn't a problem, it's just that the current autobalancer isn't working very well and people attribute that to clan stacking while a better balancer would put more people in the other team to make up for a clanstack.

This. Banner balance in itself is awesome. crpg IS to a large extent the clan players nowadays. But I do agree the autobalancer could need an adjustment in those cases where a clan is on in huge numbers.

Still..  The autobalancer is very fucking good, a good testament is how often a huge battle ends up 1vs1. Some magic mathematics there..  It just fails in certain situations on certain maps, where i.ex one team is all cav or all ranged. To make up for that it would have to be much more advanced, and probably fail just as often. Or in worst case start producing very predictable results. 
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Re: Banner "balancer", valour, multiplier & looms
« Reply #53 on: April 09, 2013, 02:56:23 am »
+1
Hmm
If only it could be changed to something, maybe similar to this?
First round: No balances
Second round: Banner balance and random balancing
Third round and up: Analyze last round and swap players to balance teams by using instead of score (since we all have good and bad moments) using class statistics.

E.g. One team has a lot of players with high powerstrike and many players with high crossbow wpf, second team has many players with agility builds and throwing. Teams are then switched so that there will be a fairly even balance of character builds on each team.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 03:01:21 am by Nazgull »
Yes, been posted before. Rather than practicing swinging a weapon, it would be better to go 1 hander and learn a martial art that specializes in takedowns, because that's all that really matters in that sport.

Offline Jarold

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Re: Banner "balancer", valour, multiplier & looms
« Reply #54 on: April 09, 2013, 03:03:57 am »
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oh my oh my if it isn't the infamous Bjord what have you been doing I haven't seen you online for quite a while?

edit: oh you refuse to answer my question, sadface :C but pls quit the trolling too then. tnx

Bjord is away at the moment, please leave your rage filled message after the beep and expect a reply within 3-4 business days. *beep*

Offline Teeth

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Re: Banner "balancer", valour, multiplier & looms
« Reply #55 on: April 09, 2013, 10:45:42 am »
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The problems with the multiplier system are countless and widely accepted, I won't cover that.

Banner balance only doesn't work because it makes the existing weaknesses of the autobalancer more apparent. The concept of banner balance isn't a problem, it's just that the current autobalancer isn't working very well and people attribute that to clan stacking while a better balancer would put more people in the other team to make up for a clanstack.
This, maybe the fact that there are multiple people from one clan can be taken into account by the balancer. If a banner stack is rolling a server, the balance should be able to go as far as putting 40 people on one team and 50 on the other. A banner stack can be balanced out perfectly. I think balance by win/loss ratio of individual players creates the best balance. Win/loss ratio takes everything into account and evening this out should provide good opportunities to both teams.

Offline Moncho

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Re: Banner "balancer", valour, multiplier & looms
« Reply #56 on: April 09, 2013, 10:46:57 am »
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Hmm
If only it could be changed to something, maybe similar to this?
First round: No balances
Second round: Banner balance and random balancing
Third round and up: Analyze last round and swap players to balance teams by using instead of score (since we all have good and bad moments) using class statistics.

E.g. One team has a lot of players with high powerstrike and many players with high crossbow wpf, second team has many players with agility builds and throwing. Teams are then switched so that there will be a fairly even balance of character builds on each team.

First and second rounds already work like that afaik, with first round putting you in the team with the least players, second round having banner balance and a big chunk of balance, and further rounds just swapping a few players to try and balance things, sometimes even clan members moved to the opposing team to their bannerstack

Offline Sniger

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Re: Banner "balancer", valour, multiplier & looms
« Reply #57 on: April 09, 2013, 11:52:41 am »
+1
I wonder what would happen to the game if everyone joined either merc or byz only to get multiplier in FFA battles. try imagine... what would happen?

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Offline Joker86

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Re: Banner "balancer", valour, multiplier & looms
« Reply #58 on: April 09, 2013, 11:52:57 am »
+1
I understand both positions of the banner balance discussion. Yes, if you are in a clan you want to play with your clan mates, it's perfectly fine. But this shouldn't justify a clan roflstomping the pubs of the enemy team, just because they happen to not be in a clan.

The solution I have to offer is the solution I offer to most problems in cRPG:

Implement conquest mode (already)!

That way both teams get a clearly defined objective, and they don't spread out over the map, while clan players stick together (which is the main reason for their effectivity - yes, it's really frustrating to see how ignorant or simply retarded most pub players are to not realize that you should always go where your teammates are, not where you see the enemy  :rolleyes: ). That way the biggest advantage clan players have over random players would get lowered a bit.

And I think we don't even need to discuss that the multiplier system is a big pile of crap, and should get removed, together with the entire upkeep system which lacks function and flexibility in such a shocking extend, that every game designer would start bleeding out of his eyes, nose and ears when he heared about it. And together with the mutliplier system the valour would be gone, but it could be replaced by something similar for the new system (whatever it will be), with the little difference of only being available for the losing team. And perhaps with more gradiations, not only the few best get 100% of the reward, but also a few good ones get 75% and a few decent ones get 50% or the like. So that not only the long term veteran nerd unemloyed players get rewards and motivation.

Looms are a different matter. The entire system should be reworked, yes, but we definitely need some kind of grind and progress in the game, it's an important, if not THE most imortant source of motivation for many, perhaps most people. Including me. Payday: The Heist was only fun until I reached the max level.
Joker makes a very good point.
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Offline Sniger

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Re: Banner "balancer", valour, multiplier & looms
« Reply #59 on: April 09, 2013, 11:56:01 am »
+1
next time im going to do a post, ill tell joker and he will do it for me. :D great post.