Flamberge nerf unnecessary

[Radix]

the problem lies in people's perception of this game being based on realism or not. Obviously if u dont want to consider any realism in this game, even short sword can have more dmg than great axe. I personally think that it is invalid to say that M&B shouldn't have anything to do with realism. WOW shouldn't be realistic as character there can Carry weapons bigger than themselves and a Little dagger may be more powerful than a 2h sword because its a golden dagger of pwownage.  For me it is clear: WOW not realistic, M&B realistic therefore it should stick to realism when it comes to balance. I support my opinion with the fact that M&B was advertised as 'Medieval Knight simulator'.

[Ninja_Khorin]

Yeah, but realism accounts for bad balance. For example, it would make tincans immune to all cutting damage, basically. Also, cRPG has not been advertised as a Medieval Knight Simulator.

[MrShovelFace]

I rock rocks with the long voulge and the flameberg is longer (on certain swings) faster and does more damage.

a perfectly viable weapon

[Magikarp]

I rock rocks with the long voulge and the flameberg is longer (on certain swings) faster and does more damage.

a perfectly viable weapon

I rock more with the Great Long Axe, the speed definatly helps on str builds where you don't have much wpf.
That's the whole point, Flamberge and Great Long Bardiche need a buff, whether it's realistic or not. It's for balance.

[MouthnHoof]

It's the most expensive and big weapon ingame, while being one of the slowest. The only good thing should be the damage and reach. Both weapons used to fulfill these roles, now they can be fulfilled by much faster weapons.

This is just plain wrong.

It is the longest 2H weapon, it does very high damage, it has a good thrust attack. It is one of the best weapons in the game, but most expensive does not necessarily means "best" in everything. Not in the game and most certainly not in real life. It reality it was an over expensive piece of unneeded **** which is why the vast majority of fighters simply used a polearm instead. It is balanced in the game.

[krampe]

Consider Mario, I am less interested in his profession, more interested in the fact he is subject to a natural phenomenon of our world - gravity.  That is an mechanism of realism, ie, a rule which exists in our world which has been applied within a fictional context (you can scoff at this if you wish, it doesn't make it any less true).  Rules like mass and gravity are particularly relevant when addressing which does more damage, a sword or an axe.  The rules dictate an axe.

A fictional context may be fictional, but that does not presuppose it is devoid of reality (as the above example demonstrates).  If there was no reality - no consistency with our world; what we would see would be alien to our eyes, like an entirely new colour.  So while Caladria is fictional, many of its mechanisms are based in reality, and are constructed ingame within the limitations of technology and feasibility.  When I say based, I do not mean constructed of in their entirety.  Axes and swords do not perform precisely as they do in reality, but they do perform like them.  Their performance is based in reality, and limited by desire or feasibility of design.  While you would like to have unlimited attack directions, I don't think we will see that until Microsoft invents the Holo Deck. 

Honestly, I don't see the problem.  A Long Axe has the ability to destroy shields.  A Flamberge has massively longer reach and a powerful penetrative attack.  Their damage is equal.  Whilst I think the Long Axe should be more damaging, as it stands, it is almost balanced.

Gravity, hmm, like vertically going up straight pipes?
In an environment following real world physics only kinetic energy dictates the damage not the type of a melee weapon or its weight alone.
A fictional context maybe fictional?! *cough*
Only your very nice phrasing made me read your post further.

To make it short: Adapting small concepts of reality into a game does NOT make it realistic,
carrying out as much aspects as possible in the given limits does.
Injuries of falling from a horse at full speed? No! Possible? Yes! Realistic NO!
But it would break the game for cav -> Balance


If you think otherwise you ... uhm maybe better stay away from weapons of any kind and especially of bringing weapons into schools  *smile* j/k  realism != reality ;D

[Magikarp]

It is the longest 2H weapon, it does very high damage, it has a good thrust attack. It is one of the best weapons in the game, but most expensive does not necessarily means "best" in everything. Not in the game and most certainly not in real life. It reality it was an over expensive piece of unneeded **** which is why the vast majority of fighters simply used a polearm instead. It is balanced in the game.

It's more like a polearm atm with all the polearm animations cutting our weapons length to a pity 130.
The thrust attack is almost useless, the best onehanders do more damage on that point.
Damage needs a buff, whether you like it or not, this weapon should not be mediocre compared to the great long axe.

[MouthnHoof]

Interesting how your math works. The Flam is 152 reach which is cut by polearms animation to a pity 130. But you compare it to the great long axe which has a reach stat of 125 and use the same polearm animations, which cut its length to... help me with the math here please.

Flam has by far the best combination of range and damage and it pays with some speed. If I would be the one doing its stats I'd nerf its cut damage to hell and significantly boost its thrust - treat it like an odd pike for 2H users.

[Blondin]

Why don't you use a GLA then?
If you like the style of Flamberge that mean style is more important than anything so you should deal with a nerf, no?

[MadJackMcMad]

Gravity, hmm, like vertically going up straight pipes?
In an environment following real world physics only kinetic energy dictates the damage not the type of a melee weapon or its weight alone.
A fictional context maybe fictional?! *cough*
Only your very nice phrasing made me read your post further.

The fact that Mario is capable of transportation through 'Pipes' (much like sucking coke through a straw) does not negate the fact he is subject to gravity when outside them. 

A point more relevant.  I seem to remember in one Mario game, you were capable of collecting a powerup that added wings to Mario and enabled flight.  Consider this - what if Mario by default had Wings and was incapable of flight?  What if by picking up a powerup he then lost those Wings and was suddenly capable of flight?  Would that make sense to you?

In my opinion, a sword doing more damage than an axe makes as much sense as a winged Mario that cannot fly.

To make it short: Adapting small concepts of reality into a game does NOT make it realistic,
carrying out as much aspects as possible in the given limits does.
Injuries of falling from a horse at full speed? No! Possible? Yes! Realistic NO!
But it would break the game for cav -> Balance

Reality is where we exist.  Realism is a concept that can be applied by desire to that which does not exist.  Realism is not binary, it varies by the quantity of it's application.  I'd consider something like Team Fortress 2 less realistic than Mount and Blade.  However, I'd consider Operation Flashpoint more realistic.  Within the context of a game realism is only ever unbalanced when it is applied without consideration to balance.  Which is not my desire.  If I were to implement damage on forced dismount, I would not do so without first (for one example) increasing the survivability of horses.

To make it long:  Adapting concepts of reality into a game makes it more realistic than it was without them.  You continue to assert (with much frothing) that games are either realistic or they are not.  To the worrying stage where I think you believe that because Caladria does not exist in a physical sense, then it is not subject to any rule which exists in our reality.  Therefore; if in Caladria horses were to ride knights and people walked around on their hands and communicated by clapping their heels together, you would not have cause to complain!

[Murchad]

This seems to be a whine thread plain and simple 2 less dmg? really?

there are lots of weapons across the board that got dmg and speed nerfs and many on weapons that nobody ever complained about.

The weapon I used most was the long hafted knobbed mace.
my masterworked one
went from 36blunt to 32
speed from 97 to 93
and requirement from 12 to 15str
it still works fine and so does the flamberge no need to complain about every change. if the flamberge isnt good enough for you use a different weapon.
I'm using the recently buffed scythe and it's 25dmg and 79 speed is fine with me

[Magikarp]

First of all, all of you realism vs balance discussers, get out of this topic please, i've had enough of offtopic conversations.

Secondly, I don't seem to get why people think the GLA is worse than the Flamberge, with the huge gap in speed it's clearly the weapon to go for.

[MouthnHoof]

1. Buy a GLA
2. Face all 2H users that out-range you with their 120 reach swords
3. Realize that you do not have an effective thrust attack
4. Profit

[Magikarp]

1. Buy a GLA
2. Face all 2H users that out-range you with their 120 reach swords
3. Realize that you do not have an effective thrust attack
4. Profit

Not an effective thrust attack? I definatly don't agree on that point. I've seen more than enough GLA users use their blunt stab to it's fullest.

[Cyclopsided]

Not an effective thrust attack? I definatly don't agree on that point. I've seen more than enough GLA users use their blunt stab to it's fullest.

...But the flamberge doesn't have one? It has the same animation, more length, and more damage? Definitely not.

Why is everyone ignoring my post which shows that the comparison sited holds no water? They weapons in said example have clear pros and cons that balance out really well.
Oh wait, the people who matter -- the devs, do know.