Author Topic: Ronin's Maps  (Read 1339 times)

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Offline Ronin

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Ronin's Maps
« on: March 06, 2013, 02:21:53 am »
+3
I just did my first scening. So, feedback would be very appreciated.


Gladiator Arena

(click to show/hide)

It is a huge arena designed for big gladiator fights among group of organized bands. Both sides have a tower and a couple of other strategic fronts. First spawn's advantages are, a more offensive positioning in general. They also have acess to the maze, which can let a small squad to go to the backside of the enemy (if they know the way!). Spawn 2 has an overall better defensive setup. They have an easier acess to their tower, and have more defensive obstacles to benefit themselves. However their defensive structures also have some blind sides. That's how I planned it to be at least :P

Overall, now it's a realistic map as I have added an image of a gigantic city, a city feels like that is even going beyond the map. Or that's how I planned it to be at least :P
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
Download link: http://www.mediafire.com/download/e5g6e5dt3b99ara/Arena.rar (30.07.2013)

Terrain code
(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: July 30, 2013, 10:31:29 pm by Ronin »
Quote from: BlindGuy
Seems the fascists are gaining ground once again in UKR... right vving politics is SO bad for the general populace but STILL in times of trouble the uneducated turn to them for help, simply because they are so amoral they vvill supply those vvilling to fight vvith vveapons rather than knovvledge.

My UU key is broken incase you can't tell :D

Offline Viriathus

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Re: Ronin's Maps
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2013, 02:43:07 pm »
+1
i think these kind of maps are great, but i guess they only accept realistic maps, because its less boring and pleasent for the unconcious, im talking about forest scenes, simple vilages scenes, hill plains scenes, etc...

Simple is good, but i think this map is too simple, maybe add some obstacles, make it unconsciously preety

Offline Ronin

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Re: Ronin's Maps
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2013, 03:03:55 pm »
0
Yeah you are right. I was too focused on strategy-balance. Also, just wanted to experiment with things a bit. That maze would be so broken probably. Let's say, "I did it for the lulz" :D
I am still trying to get familiar the edit mod, and it takes a veery long time to find the objects I want to put in. That is one obstacle blocking my process.

I will try that I presume. I just saw the realism move after I finished the map in a hurry for the scene editing contest. It's deadline was yesterday, and I just managed to finish it in 03:15 or so. (my timeline is different than the forum)

I will most likely keep this map to turn out into an event based map probably. I'm going to make a smaller-realistic version of this now. With more details and spectator rooms of course.
Quote from: BlindGuy
Seems the fascists are gaining ground once again in UKR... right vving politics is SO bad for the general populace but STILL in times of trouble the uneducated turn to them for help, simply because they are so amoral they vvill supply those vvilling to fight vvith vveapons rather than knovvledge.

My UU key is broken incase you can't tell :D

Offline Ronin

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Re: Ronin's Maps
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2013, 06:24:22 pm »
0
Did an update, fixed a couple of glitches; added some more objects to bring the atmoshpere of a battle.
Note: The might not seem like a big map, but it's a bit unrealisticly big. I wanted to make it big to suit EU_1, but I don't think the map will be added.
Edit: I am still working on the scene by the way. I think I have to add a city around it, to make it more realistic. It feels like an arena in a deserted place now. Gosh, so much work to be done :)
« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 09:36:06 pm by Ronin »
Quote from: BlindGuy
Seems the fascists are gaining ground once again in UKR... right vving politics is SO bad for the general populace but STILL in times of trouble the uneducated turn to them for help, simply because they are so amoral they vvill supply those vvilling to fight vvith vveapons rather than knovvledge.

My UU key is broken incase you can't tell :D

Offline Ronin

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Re: Ronin's Maps
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2013, 02:56:06 pm »
0
Ok, I suppose this is the dead part of the forum. So I will just go triple posting.

I have made some progress with the map today. I believe I totally finished the inside of the arena. Now I'm building a city image around it. Any feedback would be appreciated:
(click to show/hide)

This wall looks a bit dull, due to texture repetitiveness. But there is no other stairs object I can use for this. Any tips for me how to handle those? I'm thinking of adding some houses, etc. To block the view and add a better city image.
(click to show/hide)
Quote from: BlindGuy
Seems the fascists are gaining ground once again in UKR... right vving politics is SO bad for the general populace but STILL in times of trouble the uneducated turn to them for help, simply because they are so amoral they vvill supply those vvilling to fight vvith vveapons rather than knovvledge.

My UU key is broken incase you can't tell :D

Offline Viriathus

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Re: Ronin's Maps
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2013, 06:45:10 pm »
0
yea, this defenatly is the dead part of the forum.

Offline Ronin

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Re: Ronin's Maps
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2013, 08:34:49 pm »
0
I did a big update!

Now I think it's realistic overall. If you're not feeling lazy, can you check it afonsoserro? I made it to look realistic as long as the observer is within the arena. I believe it would have been a fps killer if I actually builded a whole district.
Quote from: BlindGuy
Seems the fascists are gaining ground once again in UKR... right vving politics is SO bad for the general populace but STILL in times of trouble the uneducated turn to them for help, simply because they are so amoral they vvill supply those vvilling to fight vvith vveapons rather than knovvledge.

My UU key is broken incase you can't tell :D

Offline Viriathus

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Re: Ronin's Maps
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2013, 08:57:03 pm »
+1
i quite like it!

i think it would work perfectly for a battle map, not boring at all, simple enough, i like the maze feature but i think its too omplicated, maybe redo the maze, make something smaller but wider, so spammers can swing.
However, you kinda have the same problem as i, the map is too big and generates a lot of lag.

And, pay attention when you are placing objects, dont rush it, check if they are accualy touching the ground, because if you dont, formt he players POV it will look silly, flying spikes and stuff.

Offline Ronin

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Re: Ronin's Maps
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2013, 11:21:32 pm »
0
Thanks for another good response! We should work on a map together!

i think it would work perfectly for a battle map, not boring at all, simple enough, i like the maze feature but i think its too omplicated, maybe redo the maze, make something smaller but wider, so spammers can swing.
I did redo the maze as you said. I was thinking it was a bit overkill too. Now it's simple enough, but not that too easy of course.

However, you kinda have the same problem as i, the map is too big and generates a lot of lag.
That is a bit problem indeed. I feel just a tiny bit laggy when editing the map, but when testing it it works as good as a blank map for me. Maybe my computer handles big maps well (fuck yeah 8-)) .

And, pay attention when you are placing objects, dont rush it, check if they are accualy touching the ground, because if you dont, formt he players POV it will look silly, flying spikes and stuff.
Oh my god! You are right. After all these hardwork, I couldn't spot those. Thanks for making me noticed. Fixed now.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 11:35:46 pm by Ronin »
Quote from: BlindGuy
Seems the fascists are gaining ground once again in UKR... right vving politics is SO bad for the general populace but STILL in times of trouble the uneducated turn to them for help, simply because they are so amoral they vvill supply those vvilling to fight vvith vveapons rather than knovvledge.

My UU key is broken incase you can't tell :D

Offline Teeth

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Re: Ronin's Maps
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2013, 11:40:38 pm »
+3
Hey, I hate to see requests for feedback unanswered in this forum, partly because I ask for feedback all the time. :P So here is some of mine.

Interesting idea to make an arena map, we don't have many of those. Some feedback I can give you is that you should think about picking one type of architecture and mostly sticking to that. You use different wall props with different types of stones, having only one 'culture' makes it look a bit more convincing, although I get your map is more focused on the practical use of the obstacles.

I think having some cool background stuff going on, like the city, especially that building with the path on top of that hill, really gives your map some flavour. Performance is always something you should keep in mind though, and you should not use too many objects to create your backdrops, especially considering the average player won't even notice it while playing. With the pretty high walls you have, creating a backdrop which is not always visible should eat up too much performance. 


I am still trying to get familiar the edit mod, and it takes a veery long time to find the objects I want to put in. That is one obstacle blocking my process.
Unless you are really going to put like a 2000 hours into scene editing, finding the right scene props will always be a bitch. Here is a tip from me though, do the mapping area by area, first think about what you want to do with the area, then go through the scene prop list once, placing every prop you even remotely think of using in some empty corner of your map. This way you can always click them, check their name and then look them up in the list. Saved me a lot of time.

Spawn 2 has an overall better defensive setup. They have an easier acess to their tower, and have more defensive obstacles to benefit themselves. However their defensive structures also have some blind sides. That's how I planned it to be at least :P
In my opinion it is very risky to make the spawns unequal like this, it can easily lead to one side always camping and one side always attacking or the map being unbalanced. I recommend creating strategic locations which are exactly as far away from one spawn as the other, so that the battle plays out differently every time and people have something to fight for. Mostly battle balances itself though, it is too unpredictable to really have a huge influence on it as a mapper.

Textures and ground colouring are an easy and not resource intensive way to improve the look of your map. You have a lot of one texture, getting some grass or earth in there might be nice. The key to texturing is using low weight and hardness settings and making smooth transitions and blends of textures.

After all these hardwork, I couldn't spot those. Thanks for making me noticed. Fixed now.
Spawn a horse in the scene editor and just ride around for a full 5 minutes, will make you fix 90% of the errors you couldn't see while editing.

I hope none of my feedback makes you change your whole map around or anything, you should take it as advice for future mapping, for a first map it's good. Also, get some daylight and pretty sunlight and high settings when taking screens, makes any map look a whole lot better.  :P

Offline Ronin

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Re: Ronin's Maps
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2013, 03:47:25 pm »
0
Interesting idea to make an arena map, we don't have many of those. Some feedback I can give you is that you should think about picking one type of architecture and mostly sticking to that. You use different wall props with different types of stones, having only one 'culture' makes it look a bit more convincing, although I get your map is more focused on the practical use of the obstacles.
You are right. It is mostly advisable to stick to one of the cultures. But in an arena, I think it is rather ok and can be even more convincing based on how you look at it. Because this is not a city or a castle itself and arenas can have their own type of architecture. It is mostly based on where you get the stone actually, and a city most likely has more than one stone resources. I used woody spikes to form the arena, they would most likely get the cheapest from whatever source they can get the stone. I think it has a more realistic in-depth touch than pure calradian cities. It is also possible to see different types of architectures in a city, especially if they have some left-over buildings from an ancient empire. I am living in Constantinople and it is possible to see ancient greek, byzantine, seljuk and ottoman architectures. As well as west-european based buildings such as Haydarpasha Terminal.
(click to show/hide)


Quote
I think having some cool background stuff going on, like the city, especially that building with the path on top of that hill, really gives your map some flavour. Performance is always something you should keep in mind though, and you should not use too many objects to create your backdrops, especially considering the average player won't even notice it while playing. With the pretty high walls you have, creating a backdrop which is not always visible should eat up too much performance. 
That is a problem indeed. :( That's why I tried to create an image of city, rather than building a full city. But I suppose it was not enough. I really don't want to delete some of the work I made, but I will take this into consideration when I'm starting a new scene. Thanks for the tip, as I have a strong computer overall and can't really feel if it's game-breaking or not.

Quote
Unless you are really going to put like a 2000 hours into scene editing, finding the right scene props will always be a bitch. Here is a tip from me though, do the mapping area by area, first think about what you want to do with the area, then go through the scene prop list once, placing every prop you even remotely think of using in some empty corner of your map. This way you can always click them, check their name and then look them up in the list. Saved me a lot of time.
Wow that is a very good tip! I will use this tip now. I was just checking other maps to learn the name of objects most of the time, which was time consuming.

Quote
In my opinion it is very risky to make the spawns unequal like this, it can easily lead to one side always camping and one side always attacking or the map being unbalanced. I recommend creating strategic locations which are exactly as far away from one spawn as the other, so that the battle plays out differently every time and people have something to fight for. Mostly battle balances itself though, it is too unpredictable to really have a huge influence on it as a mapper.
Hmm. I think you are right, but I just didn't want to create a mirror map. I might look it again considering this, but overall I think it does not make a high difference in this example. Both sides have enough time to go to their towers and both have good offense/defense capabilities. I'm not sure though it has to be tested I think. I feel enough confidence though, as the native map the village also has a setup like this. The defenders are inside but attackers have many ways to get into the village there, and it's an overall-balanced map.

Quote
Textures and ground colouring are an easy and not resource intensive way to improve the look of your map. You have a lot of one texture, getting some grass or earth in there might be nice. The key to texturing is using low weight and hardness settings and making smooth transitions and blends of textures.
Spawn a horse in the scene editor and just ride around for a full 5 minutes, will make you fix 90% of the errors you couldn't see while editing.
A big thanks for the tips again!

Quote
I hope none of my feedback makes you change your whole map around or anything, you should take it as advice for future mapping, for a first map it's good. Also, get some daylight and pretty sunlight and high settings when taking screens, makes any map look a whole lot better.  :P
Don' worry and thank you. It helped a lot! :)

Hmm... How to get daylight and sunligth by the way. My graphics are also at the full, do you recommend using a graphic enhancer sub mod? I don't know where I can get any.
Quote from: BlindGuy
Seems the fascists are gaining ground once again in UKR... right vving politics is SO bad for the general populace but STILL in times of trouble the uneducated turn to them for help, simply because they are so amoral they vvill supply those vvilling to fight vvith vveapons rather than knovvledge.

My UU key is broken incase you can't tell :D

Offline Viriathus

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Re: Ronin's Maps
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2013, 03:58:07 pm »
0
Your map is a death trap.

the Sco is called scn_gladiator_arena but some how it overwrited my blank_4.
I accualy lost my map. luckly i have a back up of the old one.

This is a mess, i can load my old map file, but im not even sure what is its correspondant Scenes.txt.

Offline Ronin

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Re: Ronin's Maps
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2013, 12:16:23 pm »
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I will solve the issue afonsoserro. Thanks for pointing that out.

Now working on my new exotic map, I need to make a sea. But some weird shit happens. Anyone have any tips how to make a sea-desert map?
(click to show/hide)

I hope the images are self explanatory. My sea doesn't look like a sea at all.
Quote from: BlindGuy
Seems the fascists are gaining ground once again in UKR... right vving politics is SO bad for the general populace but STILL in times of trouble the uneducated turn to them for help, simply because they are so amoral they vvill supply those vvilling to fight vvith vveapons rather than knovvledge.

My UU key is broken incase you can't tell :D

Offline Viriathus

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Re: Ronin's Maps
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2013, 08:03:30 pm »
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i dont think you can, maybe you can try doing a sea map on the 4 sides, and make hills with the ground elevation tool, so that from the players POV it doesnt show any water.

Offline Teeth

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Re: Ronin's Maps
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2013, 08:46:19 pm »
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Make the outer terrain the sea one and it should work. It seems to me your problem is that you are in edit mode and the water is transparent. I think that pressing H will render the water properly.