Author Topic: Locking down your own fief to prevent an attack  (Read 12579 times)

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Offline MURDERTRON

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Re: Locking down your own fief to prevent an attack
« Reply #45 on: February 24, 2013, 08:58:08 pm »
+1

The gear that Blackzilla took out was worth far more than the Gold and the gold has already been reduced to half of what it was already.  But, I guess you wouldn't know because you guys buy all your castles and cities.  We also don't plan on roster dropping to take castles.

Holy shit, Turboflex. The reason that no attention is being paid to the free mod that chadz/CMP made is because they are working on M:BG right now. As someone who "invested" in M:BG, I am glad that they are dedicated to working on the thing I paid for, even at the expense of the internet swords and horses game that I do hold so dear.

Unfortunately, the behaviors of individuals as well as companies are incredibly hard to change.  Unless chadz is considering a third party company or a huge influx of paid staff to moderate and administer for this game, you can pretty much expect the same experience with admins of this game as you will in ML:B.  Nothing will change their obvious disdain for North American players, the fact that both name and actually consider themselves overlords.  Right now is the time that the "overlords" need to start tightening shit up as far as how the admins run their ship as well as player support, because very soon that will be considered "customer support."  They also need to start proving they can fix issues that have haunted this mod for roughly 2 years.  Anyway, the rest is a conversation for another time, this is the diplomacy forum.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2013, 09:04:44 pm by MURDERTRON »
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Offline Matey

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Re: Locking down your own fief to prevent an attack
« Reply #46 on: February 24, 2013, 09:24:18 pm »
0
Unbelievable.... they earned it?  Really? They fought 4 battles, of which 3 battles against a defending army that had no access to Shields, Longspears to break ladders, ranged weapons, C-sites and ladders...  The only reason they didn't take larger loses is because they took advantage of this bug.

How exactly do they earn anything from attacking a bugged city is beyond me.  To earn it means you worked for it, and in this case the work was lessened by the crippling effect of the item bug. It sucks that these bugs happen, but the battles are currently not on the even playing field they should be.

The day VE takes Weyyah Caslte (if it happens) THAT will be earned...

The gold is still in the city, yet there's been no attempt to re-attack it in 3 days, now that the city defense has been fixed. Go back to attacking it if you feel confident about its capture - except this time the defense will be reflecting what FCC should have been facing every battle...


Gash. There was 350,000 gold when we first attacked it and that number was going up, also a lot of the gear in the castle was OUR gear that they got because we HAVE to attack in waves. If we could have done one big attack and been done with it, we would have. The fief currently has "Gold: 22598" that is not "all the gold" that is less than 10%. I don't know why you are raging at us for trying to take a fief the only way you can actually take a fief.

Offline BaleOhay

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Re: Locking down your own fief to prevent an attack
« Reply #47 on: February 24, 2013, 09:35:37 pm »
+1
Unbelievable.... they earned it?  Really? They fought 4 battles, of which 3 battles against a defending army that had no access to Shields, Longspears to break ladders, ranged weapons, C-sites and ladders...  The only reason they didn't take larger loses is because they took advantage of this bug.

How exactly do they earn anything from attacking a bugged city is beyond me.  To earn it means you worked for it, and in this case the work was lessened by the crippling effect of the item bug. It sucks that these bugs happen, but the battles are currently not on the even playing field they should be.

The day VE takes Weyyah Caslte (if it happens) THAT will be earned...

The gold is still in the city, yet there's been no attempt to re-attack it in 3 days, now that the city defense has been fixed. Go back to attacking it if you feel confident about its capture - except this time the defense will be reflecting what FCC should have been facing every battle...

Gash how bout we stay on topic.. complaining over and over about something that is not against the rules is useless.


Do you agree with that Hp transferring the castle like that was a fair and honorable act? Lets just see if your righteous anger is only reserved for when it benefits your own interests
« Last Edit: February 24, 2013, 09:41:29 pm by BaleOhay »
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Offline Gash

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Re: Locking down your own fief to prevent an attack
« Reply #48 on: February 24, 2013, 10:02:47 pm »
+1
First off my own interests in terms of Strategus has nothing to do with my way of thinking. I cannot stand for illogical stances (in my view) of situations and I call them out as I see them. I've lost nothing nor gained anything from this bug as an individual. So don't try to pin a bias on the fact that I fought for the defense; if anything I could see first-hand how this issue changed the facet of the defense entirely, and pretty much ruined 3 siege defenses in a row.

The issue is being discussed in the admin forums thus will not go into too much detail.

If I can offer a snippet of my personal view; That rule (locking down a fief) never took into account this bug (or badly implemented feature, as another admin would call it). The rule was made to target clans who intentionally wanted to prevent the enemy from attacking.  I would trust you could make the distinction between preventing attacks and fixing gear problems through the only other mean possible. The fief has been open to attack for the last three days. Nobody is locking it down anymore, and if anyone did, I'd have no problem supporting you and pushing for a ban.

I know FCC has a lot invested into this attack already, so its normal for you guys to be against what has happened. I understand you guys can be upset, but honestly, you have been fighting a crippled defense for three battles due to a bug badly implemented feature, which was fixed through the fief transfer.

So FCC abusing a badly implemented feature; aka: exploiting it, is OK. But Blackzilla attempting to fix the problem isn't.  This is what the issue is coming down to, and that's where I find the whole situation is rediculous

Apologies, but my ability to judge based on the circumstance tells me that the transfer was an alternate option to fix the problem. If you want to attack the city; at least man up and do it the way it was supposed to be fought. I have a hard time being convinced that a bug badly-implementeed-feature justifies actions against those who wanted to fix the problem and provide the battles the way they were meant to be fought...

In essence... I want fair-play. I want to play these battles the way they are supposed to be played. Are you against this? Or will you take the easy way out and point at the black-and-white rule that never took into consideration this bug, nor created to address this issue?

Take care
« Last Edit: February 24, 2013, 10:17:35 pm by Gash »
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Offline BaleOhay

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Re: Locking down your own fief to prevent an attack
« Reply #49 on: February 24, 2013, 10:20:46 pm »
+1
So boiled down you are saying cheating is fine to combat something that is not against the rules, just because you do not approve of how things work? I truly hope you do not employ that attitude towards real life (would lead to some serious funny business at tax time)

Took a lot of words to say that.

You act like FCC is the only one doing this. Hosp against Zagush attacked immediately after the fight even with fief owner inside he was unable to take the gear out. (hosp not pointing fingers I am perfectly fine with this just using an example) That is just an example within the last 48 hours.

You invest a lot of energy and take all the risks as attacker. Defenders have huge advantages that have been discussed over and over. I imagine hosp like us attacked immediately to lock the equipment in.. not to bug the roster of the opp side but to get a chance on a win and get as much gear as possible back. It is common sense and very logical way to do things as an attacker. Also not against the rules.
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Offline Matey

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Re: Locking down your own fief to prevent an attack
« Reply #50 on: February 24, 2013, 10:29:30 pm »
+2
First off my own interests in terms of Strategus has nothing to do with my way of thinking. I cannot stand for illogical stances (in my view) of situations and I call them out as I see them. I've lost nothing nor gained anything from this bug as an individual. So don't try to pin a bias on the fact that I fought for the defense; if anything I could see first-hand how this issue changed the facet of the defense entirely, and pretty much ruined 3 siege defenses in a row.

The issue is being discussed in the admin forums thus will not go into too much detail.

If I can offer a snippet of my personal view; That rule (locking down a fief) never took into account this bug (or badly implemented feature, as another admin would call it). The rule was made to target clans who intentionally wanted to prevent the enemy from attacking.  I would trust you could make the distinction between preventing attacks and fixing gear problems through the only other mean possible. The fief has been open to attack for the last three days. Nobody is locking it down anymore, and if anyone did, I'd have no problem supporting you and pushing for a ban.

I know FCC has a lot invested into this attack already, so its normal for you guys to be against what has happened. I understand you guys can be upset, but honestly, you have been fighting a crippled defense for three battles due to a bug badly implemented feature, which was fixed through the fief transfer.

So FCC abusing a badly implemented feature; aka: exploiting it, is OK. But Blackzilla attempting to fix the problem isn't.  This is what the issue is coming down to.

Apologies, but my ability to judge based on the circumstance tells me that the transfer was an alternate option to fix the problem. If you want to attack the city; at least man up and do it the way it was supposed to be fought. I have a hard time being convinced that a bug badly-implementeed-feature justifies actions against those who wanted to fix the problem and provide the battles the way they were meant to be fought...

In essence... I want fair-play. I want to play these battles the way they are supposed to be played. Are you against this? Or will you take the easy way out and point at the black-and-white rule that never took into consideration this bug, nor created to address this issue?

Take care

Gash, thank you for expressing your opinions.

I will attempt to address the key issues you have focused on.

1. The badly implemented feature is indeed annoying, we do not have control over it though.
1b. It is true that we could have not attacked smoothrich and instead allowed him to enter his fief and manage the item list; however, sieging is very very expensive and due to the time limit on fiefs, it is nearly impossible to successfully siege a city on the first attempt; the majority of our city sieges this strat have actually been all or nothing gambits, we have had some success with them in the past but we also had some devastating losses when attempting such. When the time runs out we are forced to retreat and lose a lot of the gear our troops had; it is too big of a risk to gamble on such an attack when the defender has enough troops to outlast the time limit. As for allowing smooth to manage the gear and then continue sending wave after wave; that sounds nice in theory, the problem is that the fief had a large amount of gold locked inside which we really wanted in order to offset some of the cost of the very expensive siege process; if the fief owner was able to return to the fief then he would be able to take all of the gold onto his own character at which point it would be impossible for us to get it as you cannot take gold from a character; it would also allow for the fief owner to sell off all the extra gear they looted from us and then store all that money on himself as well as to invest in even better gear for the defence. Sieging is already a brutal endeavour and making it harder on ourselves and removing all the rewards for being successful defeats the purpose. That is why we have not sieged again since the fief transfer; there is no money left to loot, it is all safely on people.

2. You suggest that the fief transfer was actually an effort to deal with the poorly implemented feature which was making things harder for the defensive army. Neither zilla nor smoothrich has ever stated that the purpose of the fief transfer was to fix the item problem in order to allow for better sieges. If you review some of zilla and smooth's posts, they generally do not admit to it even being a transfer, zilla does say that smooth thought it was a transfer but says he himself was going to steal it away! (if he had stolen it away then that would also mean, no more sieges) Smooth said he was just giving it to someone he liked better than FCC who wanted peace with FCC (thus, no more sieges if peace was achieved.)

2b. There is a clear cut rule which forbids transferring fiefs that are facing imminent attack.

There you are Gash! I hope that you now have increased understanding of the events than you did prior to reading my post; regardless of whether your viewpoint changes.

Offline MURDERTRON

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Re: Locking down your own fief to prevent an attack
« Reply #51 on: February 24, 2013, 10:31:51 pm »
+1
In essence... I want fair-play. I want to play these battles the way they are supposed to be played. Are you against this? Or will you take the easy way out and point at the black-and-white rule that never took into consideration this bug, nor created to address this issue?

The rules, unfortunately, do need to be black and white.  In the past you've had rules regarding ladders that are merely stated as "use common sense" and you've seen how far that has got us.  Unfortunately, in this game, you have admins who are within the very clans they are allowed to make rulings for or against.  And we all see how that is going.

Also, please stop calling it a feature.  It is a limitation of the engine and as far as I know, can not be fixed.  Unfortunately, it occurs on organically as it is only natural for armies or cities to have an assortment of gear and the quality degeneration system is not very forgiving.  If anything a some what easy but not complete fix would be to reduce the number of negative status items that exist in strategus, but if I start giving any more technical advice, I'm going to want to get paid.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2013, 10:35:51 pm by MURDERTRON »
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Offline MURDERTRON

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Re: Locking down your own fief to prevent an attack
« Reply #52 on: February 24, 2013, 11:02:24 pm »
0
I would also like to bring up that of course Gash is going to side the way he does right now.  His faction is already performing what will be another illegal fief transfer in a war zone as we speak.  These two factions are still allied, a la Diplomacy Forum and they are doing this shit again.  We are going to see minimal rosters again.  When will the violations end?  When will admins stop trying to cover up their own clan members blatant disregard for the rules?

http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=battlesupcoming#!?page=battledetail&id=2635
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Offline Zlisch_The_Butcher

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Re: Locking down your own fief to prevent an attack
« Reply #53 on: February 24, 2013, 11:41:50 pm »
-4
Stop crying over Kesh, he (hopefully) isn't coming back.
1H stab is the fastest, strongest and longest 1H animation. There's no reason NOT to use it in all instances. I don't know if it's OP, but it's boring. 1H used to be fun because you had a fast (left), long (right) and the most devastating attack (stab) and had to choose the best attack for each occasion.

Offline Matey

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Re: Locking down your own fief to prevent an attack
« Reply #54 on: February 24, 2013, 11:48:41 pm »
+1
Stop crying over Kesh, he (hopefully) isn't coming back.

Zlisch, Kesh hasn't really been mentioned here. We have been discussing a different issue. I would like your honest opinion on something though; regardless of your personal opinion of Kesh, do you believe that permabanning someone over posting logs that someone else gave them is fair and logical?

Offline Gash

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Re: Locking down your own fief to prevent an attack
« Reply #55 on: February 24, 2013, 11:59:17 pm »
0
I would also like to bring up that of course Gash is going to side the way he does right now.  His faction is already performing what will be another illegal fief transfer in a war zone as we speak.  These two factions are still allied, a la Diplomacy Forum and they are doing this shit again.  We are going to see minimal rosters again.  When will the violations end?  When will admins stop trying to cover up their own clan members blatant disregard for the rules?

http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=battlesupcoming#!?page=battledetail&id=2635

Jesus Christ Murdertron, Why the need to smear? This is such a free and unwarranted act from a petty forum warrior. Just reminded me why I stopped coming on the forums. At least Matey managed to write something that explained his perspective.  BaleoHay offered a ridiculous strawman argument, but also a pointed out something which furthered our discussionin the admin forums, and you just smear because you can. Pathetic.

I've been asked by admins about this already and I gave the exact reason why this battle is happening and I don't believe the other admins have had any cause to question the motive behind this attack. I would have gladly answered you had you ask appropriately and without resolving to this crap.  Perhaps Rohy would fill you in if he cares to after the battle.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2013, 12:03:29 am by Gash »
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Offline BaleOhay

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Re: Locking down your own fief to prevent an attack
« Reply #56 on: February 25, 2013, 12:22:24 am »
+2
Gash at least I take the time to read your arguments and try to understand them. I am no ones puppet so i am not sure where you get the strawman comment.

You on the other hand try and justify actual cheating because you do not care for how the actual game mechanics work.


How about this... Go take something bigger than a fief and see just how different you will do it. So far this strat I think you guys attacked one castle that was defended... got shelled and packed it up and went home. Not saying anything is wrong with that. it Shows just how hard it is to do. How about you walk a mile in our shoes before you complain about how our feet smell.
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Re: Locking down your own fief to prevent an attack
« Reply #57 on: February 25, 2013, 12:37:14 am »
-1
Gash at least I take the time to read your arguments and try to understand them. I am no ones puppet so i am not sure where you get the strawman comment.

You on the other hand try and justify actual cheating because you do not care for how the actual game mechanics work.


How about this... Go take something bigger than a fief and see just how different you will do it. So far this strat I think you guys attacked one castle that was defended... got shelled and packed it up and went home. Not saying anything is wrong with that. it Shows just how hard it is to do. How about you walk a mile in our shoes before you complain about how our feet smell.

Just so you know, we did attack a few cities this strat and it is indeed hard as fuck but it went as expected... I think all of you guys gave your opinions so it would be a good time to stfu instead of bringing up the issue in a slightly different angle that means the exact same thing in the end and let the admins deal with it.. this is getting ridiculous
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Offline Gash

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Re: Locking down your own fief to prevent an attack
« Reply #58 on: February 25, 2013, 12:43:00 am »
-1
The issue is still being discussed in the admin forums.

How about this... Go take something bigger than a fief and see just how different you will do it. So far this strat I think you guys attacked one castle that was defended... got shelled and packed it up and went home. Not saying anything is wrong with that. it Shows just how hard it is to do. How about you walk a mile in our shoes before you complain about how our feet smell.

If memory serves; we besieged Yalen quite well in the first wave, the defender decided to accept "surrender" for gold instead of losing the city on the second wave.

We also besieged Nova Chariz with a first wave that went rather well, and Party-boy also sold us the city before we sent our second wave.

We fought battles within the first week of strat against Templar; we've had to migrate our entire membership twice since the beginning of strat. Not like we haven't had our struggles; just none that involved a questionable bad game mechanic.

« Last Edit: February 25, 2013, 12:48:22 am by Gash »
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Offline Sandersson Jankins

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Re: Locking down your own fief to prevent an attack
« Reply #59 on: February 25, 2013, 12:44:19 am »
-1
It's obvious that the devs/admin team will not do anything about this issue. All both sides are doing are flinging shit back and forth, to no avail. You guys should probably stop.

Edit: I guess they ARE looking into the issue. In the meantime, there's no need to fling shit, and I think the "blue block" is flinging more. When you're trying to get admins to make a decision in your favor, you shouldn't really fling shit. Of course it SHOULDN'T make a difference, but we're humans and it does.

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« Last Edit: February 25, 2013, 12:49:52 am by Sandersson Jankins »
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