Author Topic: A bounty has been made. "Kill The traitor Plague!"  (Read 4102 times)

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Offline Aztek

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Re: A bounty has been made. "Kill The traitor Plague!"
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2013, 07:30:41 pm »
+1
I think plague's a pretty cool guy, but this just looks like an all around dick move, esp. with him not posting in his own defense or at least refuting that he belligerently seperated from Hosp. I can't in good internet conscience fight for him on this one.

He is a good guy (some what), the fact that he took me to duel server to show me the ropes as a newbie 2h'er was why I really liked him, and he always seemed decent in TS, tho others commented on how arrogant he came off at times. But I do not want this to turn into a bash Plague thread, in game he did a very shady and spiteful thing out of hate for one of our members, and didn't care that it screwed the entire clan in the process, for that we do not trust him or respect him in the Crpg community. Out side of the game I'm sure he is a cool guy that any of us would sit down and have a drink with, but with the internet and total animosity from consequences some times the darkest part of our character comes into play.

That is why I stand by my comment that we wish him well in his personal life, and hope you he can enjoy strat once again. But as for in game, that bounty will follow him until justice has been served  :evil: ...... :rolleyes:....... :mrgreen:

Offline Garem

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Re: A bounty has been made. "Kill The traitor Plague!"
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2013, 08:54:43 pm »
+3
While I understand how frustrating it is to feel cheated of your time as a player, these sort of things are what make Strategus awesome. It's not "Oh, drat. Well that's Strategus." It's "Haha, that scoundrel. He gets it."

Maybe it's just because I'm a Fallen that I appreciate a finely played scheme (or maybe this was on a whim, no matter). But I don't think so, I think this is the kind of game we want to have. Strategus is not a game about swords and armor at all, it's about people. For example, if Game of Thrones was just a book/show about the battles it'd be a hell of a lot less interesting, don't you think? The deceptions and schemes are what give those battles meaning and life.

I'm glad you're taking it well, instead of the inordinately frustrating bitching that often ensues after these sorts of things. Although, perhaps that too is just part of the game.
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Offline MURDERTRON

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Re: A bounty has been made. "Kill The traitor Plague!"
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2013, 08:56:50 pm »
0
He is a good guy (some what), the fact that he took me to duel server to show me the ropes as a newbie 2h'er was why I really liked him, and he always seemed decent in TS, tho others commented on how arrogant he came off at times. But I do not want this to turn into a bash Plague thread, in game he did a very shady and spiteful thing out of hate for one of our members, and didn't care that it screwed the entire clan in the process, for that we do not trust him or respect him in the Crpg community. Out side of the game I'm sure he is a cool guy that any of us would sit down and have a drink with, but with the internet and total animosity from consequences some times the darkest part of our character comes into play.

That is why I stand by my comment that we wish him well in his personal life, and hope you he can enjoy strat once again. But as for in game, that bounty will follow him until justice has been served  :evil: ...... :rolleyes:....... :mrgreen:

Isn't that what makes strat fun?  I thought previous strats had back stab after back stab.  Hell, I think I've even heard of plenty of hospitaller schemes, ploys and betrayals in previous strats.

Anyway, this is your first actual battle since FCC pulled out of your territory, so I'd consider this a good thing overall for strat.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2013, 09:00:12 pm by MURDERTRON »
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Offline Thax

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Re: A bounty has been made. "Kill The traitor Plague!"
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2013, 09:26:06 pm »
0
Plague reminds me of Malicious BRD or even Aegon....havent seen them around lately either. Anyway, this proves he really is a bundle of sticks.

Offline Lt_Anders

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Re: A bounty has been made. "Kill The traitor Plague!"
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2013, 10:33:55 pm »
-1
And as for any claims Plague had, He entered into Hospitaller with 5k gold, not 50k which he will state, during his time as a Hospitaller he did some trade runs which netted him some gold which he now claims needs to be compensated for, but in our eyes gold made while in a clan are for the clan, and is what we all do to keep the faction going as in any other clan out there. We did not want him to leave on bad terms so offered him 5k gold, 300+ troops, and all the gear he had on him , well worth over 60k. He's response was no, He wanted 200k and if we had a problem with that we would have to attack him as he was leaving. We then kicked him from the clan and sent an army after him. I talked to Plague for over 45 mins last night trying to end this reasonably but he was too upset over an incident with a Hospitaller member weeks ago and wanted to do this out of spite. All he could do was laugh at us and say deal with it, attack me if you want cause your the ones getting screwed out of it all, which we are. Its only a matter of how much we will be hurt due to others supporting him in this matter.

First off I'm going to talk about the bolded part.

Yea, Maybe in every OTHER faction, but my 4 man faction(WE GREW BY 1 AGAIN!) each person has to do shit themselves with me helping out where needed(I do have a steady tax income unlike the others) I don't even give them back their tax money from faction castle. My castle, my money.(and they don't care since they'll ask for a loan at some later point, anyways).

What each member does goes both ways. Whatever he makes, he's completely entitled to claiming it. it's HIS work, HIS time, and in some instances, HIS MONEY. Money made is HIS money, but the clan asks to use it to better themselves. It should not be(as you state) the other way around. It's the CLANS money to give out to who THEY please should not be the way you address this. The CLAN is NOT doing the work THIS guy is. Sure you could make someone ELSE do it, but then same thing. You get that gold, and money, and everything else because the players wish it, not because the clan deserves it.
(ALSO, the example you say is to much like a communistic/socialist viewpoint, where as I espouse a capitalist-ish version of it.)

TLDR: Damn Commies, Use Capitalism.

Now on to the bigger picture: why waste 800-1000 soldiers on taking back gear(and having it be lost in condition) to bring justice in. Your net gain loss (assuming 1:1) will be 1600 tickets of gear whereas letting him go costs only 800 tickets of gear. Why would you do that? Just eat the 800 and let him go.
Oh well, you attacked him, so you are even MORE in trouble now. You could lose the army and now lose 1k tickets + because you "had to get him". Is the risk worth it? Is it really worth the 800 tickets of gear to have a chance to REALLY lose 2 armies? Maybe as a big faction you can "eat your losses" but me, and the way smaller groups play, you can't just do that.

TLDR: Stupid to attack him.
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Offline CrazyCracka420

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Re: A bounty has been made. "Kill The traitor Plague!"
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2013, 10:57:25 pm »
+3
Disagree Anders, and this is strictly my opinion.

You join the faction to be part of the greater good, for a greater goal.  Win, lose or draw, it's all for the same end goal.  That is what everyone knows before joining our faction.  I would agree with you that there are other ways to run a faction, and you can easily incentivize players with capitalism, and the faction can benefit as well.  But I believe the "faction" as a whole is weaker when the members are individually stronger (depends on the circumstances obviously). 

We're not chocolate chip cookie's (n-a-z-i's), if people don't want to be a part of something that is "for the greater good", they aren't forced to join our faction.  I honestly brought it up to our leaders before (when you could transfer strat gold to crpg gold) why don't we try to incentivize new players by giving them a weekly or monthly payment for being in the faction?  And their answer (which I agree with) is that is "x" amount gold less we'd have to use for the faction.  It really is a math equation, is it better for the faction to use all resources for it's own end game.  Or would you potentially attract more people and ultimately gain more resources (but lose some of the profits) by letting people keep some of the profit themselves.

At the end of the day, it's pixels, so what people "own themselves" is irrelevant if you are part of a faction.  If you're independent, then of course what you have is what matters.  But "what you have" is collective when you're in a faction such as ours.
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Offline Aztek

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Re: A bounty has been made. "Kill The traitor Plague!"
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2013, 10:57:36 pm »
+4
First off I'm going to talk about the bolded part.

Yea, Maybe in every OTHER faction, but my 4 man faction(WE GREW BY 1 AGAIN!) each person has to do shit themselves with me helping out where needed(I do have a steady tax income unlike the others) I don't even give them back their tax money from faction castle. My castle, my money.(and they don't care since they'll ask for a loan at some later point, anyways).

What each member does goes both ways. Whatever he makes, he's completely entitled to claiming it. it's HIS work, HIS time, and in some instances, HIS MONEY. Money made is HIS money, but the clan asks to use it to better themselves. It should not be(as you state) the other way around. It's the CLANS money to give out to who THEY please should not be the way you address this. The CLAN is NOT doing the work THIS guy is. Sure you could make someone ELSE do it, but then same thing. You get that gold, and money, and everything else because the players wish it, not because the clan deserves it.
(ALSO, the example you say is to much like a communistic/socialist viewpoint, where as I espouse a capitalist-ish version of it.)

TLDR: Damn Commies, Use Capitalism.

Now on to the bigger picture: why waste 800-1000 soldiers on taking back gear(and having it be lost in condition) to bring justice in. Your net gain loss (assuming 1:1) will be 1600 tickets of gear whereas letting him go costs only 800 tickets of gear. Why would you do that? Just eat the 800 and let him go.
Oh well, you attacked him, so you are even MORE in trouble now. You could lose the army and now lose 1k tickets + because you "had to get him". Is the risk worth it? Is it really worth the 800 tickets of gear to have a chance to REALLY lose 2 armies? Maybe as a big faction you can "eat your losses" but me, and the way smaller groups play, you can't just do that.

TLDR: Stupid to attack him.

We do not work that way, we don't not have individuals do their own thing, if you are in our clan, and participate in strat, you help the faction as a whole, if not there is no need to be a part of our faction and we make that clear. If he is using our S&D and trade he is doing so knowing it is for the factions profit to better suite the clan and not for a bank deposit for when that member chooses to leave. Were are a faction, not a hub for solo traders and personal profit. You may hold different rules as you are merc's, but we do not hold that mentality.

As for letting him get away, we have numerous reason, one is simply retribution for what he did, but others include nipping this in the butt before he can regroup with more troops/gear to come back on us. The fact that he needs to know this will not be accepted regardless of what we may lose, it's just silly to let him get away and potentially cause more harm in the long run with better gear are more coordination. We rather kill that threat while at our doorsteps than to deal with it later on. Hospitaller has always had the mind set that we may lose a fight/war, we may lose more resources that gaining, but we always have our principals, and are more than willing and able to die for them.

I can't speak for the other clans but would imagine if one of their members took 800 equipped troops and threatened to join a hostile faction if they came after him while they tried to run away taunting said faction while doing so, they would be met with the same fate.. but again, that is purely speculation on my part.

Offline AluminumMonster

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Re: A bounty has been made. "Kill The traitor Plague!"
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2013, 11:13:09 pm »
+2
We do not work that way, we don't not have individuals do their own thing, if you are in our clan, and participate in strat, you help the faction as a whole, if not there is no need to be a part of our faction and we make that clear. If he is using our S&D and trade he is doing so knowing it is for the factions profit to better suite the clan and not for a bank deposit for when that member chooses to leave. Were are a faction, not a hub for solo traders and personal profit. You may hold different rules as you are merc's, but we do not hold that mentality.

As for letting him get away, we have numerous reason, one is simply retribution for what he did, but others include nipping this in the butt before he can regroup with more troops/gear to come back on us. The fact that he needs to know this will not be accepted regardless of what we may lose, it's just silly to let him get away and potentially cause more harm in the long run with better gear are more coordination. We rather kill that threat while at our doorsteps than to deal with it later on. Hospitaller has always had the mind set that we may lose a fight/war, we may lose more resources that gaining, but we always have our principals, and are more than willing and able to die for them.

I can't speak for the other clans but would imagine if one of their members took 800 equipped troops and threatened to join a hostile faction if they came after him while they tried to run away taunting said faction while doing so, they would be met with the same fate.. but again, that is purely speculation on my part.

i see what you did there :wink:
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Offline Visconti

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Re: A bounty has been made. "Kill The traitor Plague!"
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2013, 11:18:44 pm »
+4
First off I'm going to talk about the bolded part.

Yea, Maybe in every OTHER faction, but my 4 man faction(WE GREW BY 1 AGAIN!) each person has to do shit themselves with me helping out where needed(I do have a steady tax income unlike the others) I don't even give them back their tax money from faction castle. My castle, my money.(and they don't care since they'll ask for a loan at some later point, anyways).

What each member does goes both ways. Whatever he makes, he's completely entitled to claiming it. it's HIS work, HIS time, and in some instances, HIS MONEY. Money made is HIS money, but the clan asks to use it to better themselves. It should not be(as you state) the other way around. It's the CLANS money to give out to who THEY please should not be the way you address this. The CLAN is NOT doing the work THIS guy is. Sure you could make someone ELSE do it, but then same thing. You get that gold, and money, and everything else because the players wish it, not because the clan deserves it.
(ALSO, the example you say is to much like a communistic/socialist viewpoint, where as I espouse a capitalist-ish version of it.)

TLDR: Damn Commies, Use Capitalism.

Now on to the bigger picture: why waste 800-1000 soldiers on taking back gear(and having it be lost in condition) to bring justice in. Your net gain loss (assuming 1:1) will be 1600 tickets of gear whereas letting him go costs only 800 tickets of gear. Why would you do that? Just eat the 800 and let him go.
Oh well, you attacked him, so you are even MORE in trouble now. You could lose the army and now lose 1k tickets + because you "had to get him". Is the risk worth it? Is it really worth the 800 tickets of gear to have a chance to REALLY lose 2 armies? Maybe as a big faction you can "eat your losses" but me, and the way smaller groups play, you can't just do that.

TLDR: Stupid to attack him.

That might work well for your 1 fief faction anders, but when your talking about a larger clan like hospi, the gold is theirs because the village the goods were either sold or purchased in belongs to the clan, or to a clan that hospi leaders had to talk to and do some diplomacy with to get a trade deal. The clan did all the work to obtain either the trade deal, or the village where the goods were purchased. The merchant is just transporting the clans goods, he did nothing to earn them. 
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Offline Lt_Anders

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Re: A bounty has been made. "Kill The traitor Plague!"
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2013, 11:19:17 pm »
+1
We do not work that way, we don't not have individuals do their own thing, if you are in our clan, and participate in strat, you help the faction as a whole, if not there is no need to be a part of our faction and we make that clear. If he is using our S&D and trade he is doing so knowing it is for the factions profit to better suite the clan and not for a bank deposit for when that member chooses to leave. Were are a faction, not a hub for solo traders and personal profit. You may hold different rules as you are merc's, but we do not hold that mentality.

Perhaps that's what makes my view so much more different. Each person in the clan does there own thing, but it's  combined all for the better of all of us. But, if 1 person has trouble(as bacon did some time ago) then it's his job to rebuild it...(or in my case I needed his tax money so I got him restarted cause his tax money is worth more) But each person does what they want because they want to, not because I tell them too. Bacons trade runs were HIS deal, HIS money, HIS Gear, HIS troops. But I made money off of it via taxes(like a tithe almost).  I just follow a decentralized plan. If all the other guys were as ACTIVE as I was, we'd actually be doing more than 1 job at a time.

Quote
As for letting him get away, we have numerous reason, one is simply retribution for what he did, but others include nipping this in the butt before he can regroup with more troops/gear to come back on us. The fact that he needs to know this will not be accepted regardless of what we may lose, it's just silly to let him get away and potentially cause more harm in the long run with better gear are more coordination. We rather kill that threat while at our doorsteps than to deal with it later on. Hospitaller has always had the mind set that we may lose a fight/war, we may lose more resources that gaining, but we always have our principals, and are more than willing and able to die for them.

I can't speak for the other clans but would imagine if one of their members took 800 equipped troops and threatened to join a hostile faction if they came after him while they tried to run away taunting said faction while doing so, they would be met with the same fate.. but again, that is purely speculation on my part.

Regardless, if he does ANYTHING with those troops besides sit there and recruit it'll be SOMEONE ELSES troops. But I guess, you guys attacked him so it doesn't matter. I think it is a stupid endevor and worthless since, it's 1 guy and even if he does nothing BUT recruit, he can't get huge troop amounts except over time, otherwise, those troops have to come from elsewhere.

That's also why my faction it's each person has their own army. To prevent this.
Oh you wanna go on your own? Fine IDC, your stuff anyway.

Just my opinions. No battle is worth it if you don't come out ahead.
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Quote
That might work well for your 1 fief faction anders, but when your talking about a larger clan like hospi, the gold is theirs because the village the goods were either sold or purchased in belongs to the clan, or to a clan that hospi leaders had to talk to and do some diplomacy with to get a trade deal. The clan did all the work to obtain either the trade deal, or the village where the goods were purchased. The merchant is just transporting the clans goods, he did nothing to earn them. 

HEY I'm a 4 man faction, much the same as LL is right now!
But my point stands on some grounds even then. His time, His effort. You're right in that it may not be HIS actual gear, troops, gold, or otherwise. But, in strat, Logistics beats everything else. Sure I can have 1000000k armies, but if no one is willing to spend time, or effort to move shit around, that's just wasted space.

You buy your clan mates time(and time is precious, you have only a limited supply of it, and each persons time is different). Though that's a little TOO philosophical, it's true!

And who's to say that my model wouldn't work for large clans? Personal initiative beats everything else. If Hosp had people who wanted to own what they did and could do it what ever way they like and had to handle the benefits or consequences, would their activity as a whole go up?

TLDR: I'm Talking philosophy about how factions act.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2013, 11:27:21 pm by Lt_Anders »
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Offline Lemmy_Winks

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Re: A bounty has been made. "Kill The traitor Plague!"
« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2013, 11:56:55 pm »
+3
Plauge joined hosp long after i had left, although from playing in server he seemed kind of like an arrogant dick. Also one time i was bored in duel and teaching some noob how to fight and he asked what clan he should join, i said hospitaller and he said he didnt want to. I ask why and he said they seem like pompous jerks, i said who in the clan is like that, and he said Plauge. Probably better off without imo, having nice respectful people > having good players.
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Offline Aztek

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Re: A bounty has been made. "Kill The traitor Plague!"
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2013, 12:15:40 am »
+1
^^^^

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Offline CrazyCracka420

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Re: A bounty has been made. "Kill The traitor Plague!"
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2013, 12:25:34 am »
0
I blame thugicus
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Offline Goretooth

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Re: A bounty has been made. "Kill The traitor Plague!"
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2013, 12:29:15 am »
+1
My orders are to hunt plague down hope they include anders after reading this thread.
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Offline Lt_Anders

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Re: A bounty has been made. "Kill The traitor Plague!"
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2013, 12:58:16 am »
0
My orders are to hunt plague down hope they include anders after reading this thread.

Considering I'm only discussing how clans act internally, that's an interesting statement.(aside from the stupidity in wasting more gear on the endevour and cutting losses short. Different viewpoints on that)

But come at me bro, you've never actually attacked ME in strat with stuff YOU have earned. Also "stolen," as you have left both clans with a nice dagger in the back plauge style, I don't think you have any reason or right to say that about me.

Now I just hope plague runs towards me so that I can make some money off this endeavor cause a 3AM battle time sucks.
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