HBO's Game of Thrones. [No Book Spoilers]

[Oberyn]

What battles has Tywin ever won? He's more a good politician/schemer than a commander. I mean he's not incompetent, but he's not a military genius. In the series he's mostly known for commiting a house "genocide" against one of his own vassals, betraying Aerys at the last moment and sacking King's Landing, and underestimating Robb Stark and getting owned. Not exactly a brilliant military career. He takes the entire credit for the battle of the Blackwater when clearly Tyrion was the true saviour there. If it wasn't for Edmure being a dumbass, he would have fallen for yet another trick of Robb Stark's and wouldn't even have been there.
His skill is in forging political stability through alliances and fear, not so much actual warfare.

[The_Bloody_Nine]

Also tot was drawing the morality card, saying something like Robb causes more death and misery than Tywin, because he brings peace and stability. "Terrible" commander and ruler is maybe the wrong choice of word, but at least he is reckless and his peace his built upon corpses and lots of misery. And in opposite to Robb he is doing it in full awareness of every consequence of his actions.

[BASNAK]

Well I guess this was it. See ya in this thread again in one year .

[Kafein]

It is often underlined in the books that Tywin did a great job as Aerys' Hand.

[Leesin]

Well I guess this was it. See ya in this thread again in one year .

9 and a half months if it makes you feel any better 

[okiN]

Oh wow, that final scene was just painful to watch. I hear post-colonialism knocking.

[Henry_Broodsonson]

  Heil Die Internet

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Robb is one of the biggest assholes in the series so far, and the one guy with the least possible claim to be king. people claim Robb had "honor" and shit like Ned, but really, he goes against his fathers wishes and tries to become king with no real claim on the throne besides "WOLVES AND SHIT! NORTH!", he betrays Walder Fray the second Walder isn't needed, and the only reason he punished that Karstagg guy was because he was afraid of what the Lannisters would do to his sisters. Glad that guy died.

[BASNAK]

Robb is one of the biggest assholes in the series so far, and the one guy with the least possible claim to be king. people claim Robb had "honor" and shit like Ned, but really, he goes against his fathers wishes and tries to become king with no real claim on the throne besides "WOLVES AND SHIT! NORTH!", he betrays Walder Fray the second Walder isn't needed, and the only reason he punished that Karstagg guy was because he was afraid of what the Lannisters would do to his sisters. Glad that guy died.

The Starks have been controlling the North for a very long time. I'm not 100% sure but for even thousands of years? And were the kings of the North until the Targaryens conquered them. So it's actually a valid claim to be the King of the North.

[Bittersteel]

Tywin hasn't actually met Robb in the field. Saying that Tywin is a bad commander because Robb has put all his mind to avoid Tywin isn't really fair. He didn't defeat Tywin on the battlefield but his son Jamie and Stafford, Johannas brother. As for the books the battle of the Green Fork, you actually read about it in POV of Tyrion. Tywin had a really good 'setup' ... forgive me, i'm not the greatest in terms of war, nor english. Anyways, i found this on another forums.

Actually, Tywin and Robb never meet in the field. As far as their deployment of forces, Tywin's strategy was pretty good from the outset. The Northerners have to march down the Kingsroad, move to meet them at a spot where he has the advantage, besiege Riverrun in the meantime, and raise a third host to supplement either one of your two original hosts. Of course, people on this forum expect Tywin or Stannis or whoever it is they are bashing to think of every possible permutation, but in reality, almost no one can do that or can afford to take the time to prepare for every eventuality. The fact is Tywin didn't expect Walder Frey, a man whose son is married to Tywin's sister and whose grandsons are fighting under Lannister banners, to support Robb Stark in this conflict, or that a Northern force that would max out at 25,000 would successfully split into two forces and destroy Jaime's host of 15,000. Or that Robb would have a magic wolf that would find a secret goat path past the army guarding the only passage into the Westerlands.

Well, Robb never won a batlle against Tywin himself, Robb won Jaime and Stafford, but Tywin was never a commander of the army Robb won. But, Robb proved to be excellent commander but worst politician, while Tywin is excellent politican and decent commander. You have to be both to win the war, and Tywin was, and Tywin won.

[Overdriven]

Robb is one of the biggest assholes in the series so far, and the one guy with the least possible claim to be king. people claim Robb had "honor" and shit like Ned, but really, he goes against his fathers wishes and tries to become king with no real claim on the throne besides "WOLVES AND SHIT! NORTH!", he betrays Walder Fray the second Walder isn't needed, and the only reason he punished that Karstagg guy was because he was afraid of what the Lannisters would do to his sisters. Glad that guy died.

Joffrey cutting of his fathers head after a promise was made to Ned that he'd go to the wall is reason enough. That is the event that sparked Rob being made King in the North, especially when coupled with the knowledge of Joffrey as the child of incest rather than the actual heir.

[Kafein]

Robb doesn't claim anything but the North iirc, which makes him an independentist dipshit no better than Stromcloaks or something. He also rightfully refuses to bow down to Joffrey, because he knows Joffrey has 0 right to the throne, which is fine. I think we can all agree Joffrey is the number one douchebag no matter how you try to see it because he is about the only character in this book that is within the classical fantasy tropes. He has no motivation but evil itself, which makes him quite ridiculous and one of the weakest part of the books IMO.

[Overdriven]

I don't think that's a weakness. His 'evilness' is still very human. He's a kid who has been handed power on a plate and has turned into a terraway brat with no one to control him until Tywin turns up. Seems pretty normal. His 'evil' fantasy's (abusing the whores) are the kind of thing that happens out in the real world all the time. So he comes across as very real to me.

[Freland]

I LOVE to hate Joffrey especially in the show - I think Jack Gleason nails it.
Nearly everyone knows some teenage bully who did mean things to the other kids just because he could. Too bad this bully is a king.

And I don't even think it is stereoptypical. Standard fantasy doesn't have some teenage asshole on the throne. Daenerys and Jon Snow are our stereotypical heroes while still being rich characters.

Btw Robb didn't really want to become king. It were his bannermen who shouted "King of the North" when they didn't want to follow any of the kings after Ned died.

[BASNAK]

Hes a spoiled little inbred twat. That's why he acts like he does D: