1 hand no shield. Mostly Cons and some Pros.

[Leshma]

Pure 1h is about fun.

[Pentecost]

I'm not sure whether it's just that I got better or the hitbox rework made it glance less than it did before, but the right swing, for me, is actually more dependable than the left swing now, simply because it has better range and you can turn into it more easily. Overhead and stab are kind of risky/situational after the turn speed change, but that's a different matter.

Formless: I was under the impression that 1h is balanced around the assumption that you will either be carrying a shield with it or that it is merely a sidearm to another (usually ranged) weapon. This is also why it has comparatively low cost and upkeep--it's probably not being used alone. Therefore, you probably should not be excluding the shield from the equation when you're comparing it to other melee weapon classes, as the majority of dedicated 1h users out there are shielders and not swashbucklers.

I mean, don't get me wrong; I would love it if the developers were to offer some kind of incentive to use 1h no shield and make it a more competitive playstyle than it is currently, but I suspect the chances of that happening are very low.

[Leshma]

I mean, don't get me wrong; I would love it if the developers were to offer some kind of incentive to use 1h no shield and make it a more competitive playstyle than it is currently, but I suspect the chances of that happening are very low.

Paul has an excellent idea and knows how to implement it. Unfortunately for us, he has no time to finish it or he simply doesn't care anymore.

[ednos]

breaking the ATTACK-BLOCK-ATTACK-BLOCK turn mechanic

I'm new to the game, so forgive me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that breaking that static exchange is the beginning of the fight between any two melee players without shields, not just those with one-handed weapons. Successfully interrupting the rhythm gives you control over the next few moments until your opponent recovers and either reestablishes that rhythm or finds an opportunity to assert his own. This is, of course, based on my limited experience on the duel server, where I'm basically resigned to waiting for the better players to make mistakes (usually getting too cocky) before I can land a hit.

[Mlekce]

I bought a 2h sword 2 days ago and after few gens playing as shielder i tried 2h.
Well 2h weapon are great for duel or 1 vs 1 fights,but when i entered siedge and eu1 it was pretty lame. When i had shield i was able to fight vs few ppl and have cover from ranged,as a 2h you only rely on your block. How can you block few ppl at once?
Usually i kill someone and then others gank me. Yes 2h have more reach and speed and dmg but they totally deserved it.
Not i single time i had chance to fight 1 vs 1,every time it was 1 vs 3 in best case.
On 1handers only stab need a fix,rest of the stuff is pretty ok.

[Dezilagel]

I know that and I usually see it coming. Personally I die to this way too frequently because as I consider it super lame, I don't want to play with it, and end up not reacting as I should. Psychologic barriers . I also don't like moving my camera as fast as some people force me to do this way, headaches -_- . I don't like that this forces me into a super dull direct attack cycle, at least for one round. If I feint or hold or do basically anything but attacking as fast as possible while turning my camera like a madman, I die. I'd like some choice on the matter. Finally, sometimes those people completely dissapear and pop in my back and that's just retarded. When people like Vibe or Cyber kill me, it's because they bait me into making an attack without actually having the time to complete it before they hit me, and that's the way I kill people too, although with less success.

From an objective point of view now, way too many players only rely on that cheap move to get kills. I will not throw names but really if you watch people playing it's evident they can hardly do anything else. Learn to block, get a long and damaging weapon and voila. Especially considering that player collisions should not be that glitchy in the first place, it's way too easy to pull off.

Well then. If the 'objective' (why do people throw that word around like it's candy?) point of view is that a ton of players use that 'cheap' (again, highly subjective) way to kill people, then learning to punish that trick seems to be the solution no?

Just because you're held back by your own psyche doesn't mean that everyone else is. And having a choice in the matter...? That's just ridiculous. And besides you do have a choice in this particular scenario:

1. Leftswing for a free hit (10 points!). A free hit on the guy, very good considering how adept people are at blocking nowadays (now that's what I would maybe call an 'objective' observation)

2. Block. No harm done to either side.

3.  Fuck up and get hit. What it says on the tin.

One thing that does change my outlook on this scenario from "completely normal" to "lame as shit" though is if the guy's randoming. But judging from your previous posts I assume he's not.

Don't get me wrong. I get killed in stupid ways a ton to. But it's pretty easy to see when it's bullshit and when it's not. If the guy's outmaneuvering you and tricking you into attacking when you shouldn't then it's not bullshit imo, no matter how hard a time you have countering it.

[Turkhammer]

. Yes 2h have more reach and speed and dmg but they totally deserved it.

Why do they deserve it?  I think they (and Mauls) should be further nerfed to account for fatigue and the weight of their weapons.

[Osiris]

because the people who like to play more historically accurate chars are outnumberd by the legions of 2h star wars fans

[Mlekce]

Why do they deserve it?  I think they (and Mauls) should be further nerfed to account for fatigue and the weight of their weapons.

It is much harder to play as melee blocker then with shield.

[Leshma]

We're obviously discussing 1h no shield...

No more nerfs please, buff one handed swords if needed but no more nerfs.

I think that sligtly different stats for one handed weapons with/without shield could make things right.

[ednos]

How can you block few ppl at once?

It's hard at first, but you'll get the hang of it. Players rarely, if ever, coordinate their strikes, and for some reason they often end up 2*pi/n out of phase--maybe they love rhythm--and with not much room for more than three players (n=3), there's plenty of time--especially when you consider that the guy in the middle can only stab or swing overhead, and occasionally the same is true for the edge players. (This is one reason I prefer to fight alongside a wall or fence if I'm caught defending against more than one person.) If you're lucky and they hit each other--you can usually see this coming before the hit actually lands--your gamble for smacking one of them is actually pretty safe. This is, to me, the primary advantage of the speed of the two-handed stab when you're in group fights.

The major exception to the phase delay is a large group of enemies chasing you because you are separated from your group. (Perhaps they have already gone to hell, and you are the last one standing.) Then the enemies tend to swing wildly and without regard for teammates' well-being.

[Gurnisson]

One-handers that can't be used with a shield that are slightly better stat-wise? More reason for players with side-arms to fight, more of a reason to go 1h without shield. Or maybe not, maybe not the best idea for balance.

[Lannistark]

Was 1h no shield for just one gen. My conclusions drawn upon this time are: you are always at a disadvantage, you need to be concentrated to beat your opponent, he can allow himself mistakes whereas you cannot, most enjoyable time I've had playing this mod.

[Osiris]

1h should imo have a far more realistic stab the retarded stab animation now looks stupid ^^. Give us a sexy underarm stab makes it harder to see and looks better with da shield

[Teeth]

If you think the right swing is a con of the class you should play it some more. Right swing = best swing.

1h without a shield is in a fine place balance wise, don't make it a class for the masses.