Author Topic: A mathematical model of the cRPG metagame  (Read 3485 times)

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Offline bilwit

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Re: A mathematical model of the cRPG metagame
« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2012, 11:07:17 pm »
0
I think it's an interesting concept. I do modeling like this for a living, and I'm going to give the approach some more thought. First blush: it's a good model. I'm not sure if the 'Payoff' matrix is set up correctly, but without real data that's difficult to know.

For people who don't speak code, here're the results of Kafein's simluation in graphical form (only plotted to time = 50, because nothing interesting happens after that):

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For those who speak MATLAB:
(click to show/hide)

I understand that the fitness = fitness * (1-pop^2) is trying to model the resistance of 'the last, hardcore players of a certain class to change'. The relationships are definitely non-linear, and this shows some of that. Can any other math people comment on whether they think this is the right way to do it?

Why are you using area instead of a straight up plot? The vertical axis doesn't represent "portion of population" this way.

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^With plot() we can clearly see that at every point in time the sum of popRec is one and the initial time assumes that there are an equal amount (very close to equal at least) of players for each class. Now it's easier to look at without trying to interpret which space is bigger at what point etc (I removed the "classes" string flip on the legend because it didn't look consistent at all with the area graph). From his model we can say that over time (from steady state to infinity) 27% play 2H, 27% play pole, 24% play ranged, 19% play shielder, 3% play cav, and almost no one plays HR.

Anyways, I don't agree with the payoff matrix. Shielder has 2 effectiveness against 2H and Pole and only 1 versus Cav? Is there a reason a scale of 1-5 is used? Wouldn't a more simplified 1-3 scale (1=disadvantage, 2=even, 3=advantage) be better (and more objective) representation? Why aren't hybrids accounted for (there are many players who are spec pole/2h but use their crossbow most of the time, also dedicated archers who run away versus archers who 1h/2h melee -- both have different effectiveness versus other classes)? Also not sure what to make out of the characteristic model applied or why it's used.

This is based on way too many assumptions for anything meaningful to be dug out of it. It's fun to fiddle around with I guess, which I guess was the purpose anyway. I'd like to see the devs release data on class population over time (if something like that exists) and maybe someone could highlight what patches were released when and what was nerfed/buffed/etc.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2012, 12:22:20 am by bilwit »
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Offline Vibe

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Re: A mathematical model of the cRPG metagame
« Reply #31 on: October 26, 2012, 11:44:26 pm »
-2
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Offline PhigNewtenz

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Re: A mathematical model of the cRPG metagame
« Reply #32 on: October 27, 2012, 02:04:13 am »
+1
Why are you using area instead of a straight up plot? The vertical axis doesn't represent "portion of population" this way.

Clearly you're unfamiliar with a stacked area chart. The portion of the population represented by each class is the height of it's color bar. It's actually a really standard way of representing this kind of data. Your other critiques are pretty valid though. I'm sure that as long as people are interested, we'll continue to refine and improve it. For creating something from nothing, I think Kafein did an awesome job. No one else has tried to do anything like this yet...

Offline KaMiKaZe_JoE

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Re: A mathematical model of the cRPG metagame
« Reply #33 on: October 27, 2012, 02:22:54 am »
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The data suggests cav doesn't need a nerf. This is heresy.

Also, this thread has revived in my the conviction that there are, in fact, wizards afoot.
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Offline Thomek

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Re: A mathematical model of the cRPG metagame
« Reply #34 on: October 27, 2012, 05:29:49 am »
+1
The most advanced buff cav thread ever. I'm incredibly impressed Kafein.  8-)
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Offline SixThumbs

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Re: A mathematical model of the cRPG metagame
« Reply #35 on: October 27, 2012, 05:56:45 am »
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Even in a nice color coded picture I still don't understand it.
And how!

Offline Tore

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Re: A mathematical model of the cRPG metagame
« Reply #36 on: October 27, 2012, 10:12:47 am »
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Offline Kafein

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Re: A mathematical model of the cRPG metagame
« Reply #37 on: October 27, 2012, 06:06:42 pm »
+1
The most advanced buff cav thread ever. I'm incredibly impressed Kafein.  8-)

You can increment or decrement one number in the matrix and it becomes a 2h buff thread. This works with any class. Literally.

Offline genric

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Re: A mathematical model of the cRPG metagame
« Reply #38 on: October 27, 2012, 06:09:18 pm »
+1
I think the fact that cav population decreases is because the graph forumulates duels between the classes so since cav is weak in that regard it's the reason it dies off but as long as you have people not paying attention and couching, it will live. Also being able to bump 20 people in a row.
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Offline Overdriven

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Re: A mathematical model of the cRPG metagame
« Reply #39 on: October 27, 2012, 09:58:29 pm »
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Why are you using area instead of a straight up plot? The vertical axis doesn't represent "portion of population" this way.
(click to show/hide)

Area is prettier.

Offline Kafein

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Re: A mathematical model of the cRPG metagame
« Reply #40 on: October 27, 2012, 10:28:22 pm »
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Area is prettier.

The lines have the advantage of making more limited obsevations easier. Like comparing only two populations. When two populations have the same amount of people, it's just two lines intersecting.

Offline Overdriven

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Re: A mathematical model of the cRPG metagame
« Reply #41 on: October 27, 2012, 10:37:09 pm »
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The lines have the advantage of making more limited obsevations easier. Like comparing only two populations. When two populations have the same amount of people, it's just two lines intersecting.

I prefer my explanation  :P