Removing jumpshots

[Son Of Odin]

Didn't read the thread but I don't actually care! Jumpshot is nothing OP. Skilled archer has two possible ways to win a noob shielder. 1) jumpshotting 2) sidestepping. Ofc veteran shielder will not let archers to wiggle past his shield anyhow because he knows this and keeps his shield always in a right position.

[Adamar]

Voted on nº 3 for no reason. Anyway, I personaly dont use jumpshooting and I dont see how it can be much of an advantage for an archer.

[Arrowblood]

Voted on nº 3 for no reason. Anyway, I personaly dont use jumpshooting and I dont see how it can be much of an advantage for an archer.

I know it 

[Haboe]

I personaly dont use jumpshooting and I dont see how it can be much of an advantage for an archer.

He can turn around and pull his bow while in the air, without having to stop. Only useful when kiting as an archer.

[Overdriven]

my weapons (bow, 2 stack of arrows and hand axe already got almosy 10 weigth), so pls stop telling shit about increasing weigth of bows

Not exactly sure what you meant to say there  10 weight is nothing  Especially combined with relatively light armour.

My original point is simple...to stop archers kiting and abusing jumpshot, slow down archers (in whatever manner, bow weight was an example), hand them a sword, nerf running with bow drawn and there you go. Melee competent archers who won't kite constantly.

[Joker86]

Not exactly sure what you meant to say there  10 weight is nothing  Especially combined with relatively light armour.

My original point is simple...to stop archers kiting and abusing jumpshot, slow down archers (in whatever manner, bow weight was an example), hand them a sword, nerf running with bow drawn and there you go. Melee competent archers who won't kite constantly.

Making archers less archery and more infantry...y (?) can never be the solution.

I already wrote it down somewhere else: if archers are almost as good as infantry in melee (to reduce their incentive to run away), infantry must be almost as good as archers in ranged combat, to keep things fair. And as infantry doesn't participate in ranged combat at all, we need something whcih is only slighty better. Which would mean, the ranged capabilities of archers should be nerfed down to the level of a stone throwing peasant. On the other hand, if you'd try to raise the ranged capabilities of infantry closer to the level of archers, by promoting hybrids, all you would achieve is 90% ranged fighting.

No no, archers are fine by doing damage over distance, running away by using their better mobility and standing no chance in melee against infantry. Yes, the last point is important. If I manage to run through the enemy fire and reach the archer, I think I deserve an easy and pretty guaranteed kill.

[Overdriven]

Making archers less archery and more infantry...y (?) can never be the solution.

I already wrote it down somewhere else: if archers are almost as good as infantry in melee (to reduce their incentive to run away), infantry must be almost as good as archers in ranged combat, to keep things fair. And as infantry doesn't participate in ranged combat at all, we need something whcih is only slighty better. Which would mean, the ranged capabilities of archers should be nerfed down to the level of a stone throwing peasant. On the other hand, if you'd try to raise the ranged capabilities of infantry closer to the level of archers, by promoting hybrids, all you would achieve is 90% ranged fighting.

No no, archers are fine by doing damage over distance, running away by using their better mobility and standing no chance in melee against infantry. Yes, the last point is important. If I manage to run through the enemy fire and reach the archer, I think I deserve an easy and pretty guaranteed kill.

It's not making them less archery. I seriously suggest playing WotR to see what I'm talking about. That kind of system is pretty much what I mean and it works very well...possibly the one good thing that game does other than shiny stuff.

The difference is they are pretty much forced to be light (due to armour penalties) so they suffer from that, they have to sacrifice points in PS and ironflesh a lot of the time if they want more PD and WM ect so they don't deal a lot of damage in melee but a good archer who can block can still fight their way out of a situation and kill a few. Slowing them down with a bow out means they have to think about their placement a lot and also support their team more. It makes for a much better ranged system and far less 'zomg melee run away' as often they are forced to enter it unless they have stuck with their team and can rely on team mates.

I don't see your reasoning of archers having melee capabilities means melee should have ranged. As far as I'm concerned they already do via throwing and xbow. Melee can still take basic throwing weapons/xbows without sacrificing many points at all for melee. Unless your in a duel situation the points difference isn't noticeable, particularly with many xbowers. Therefore archers should have more than a 0 slot weapon for melee.

[Joker86]

The point is I wouldn't move the different classes closer to each other. And if melee has ranged weapons, in most cases they are either hybrids (not melee) or are incredibly ineffective with it. And even if archers are ALMOST as good as infantry in melee, they would still run away, due to their much better chances of killing that enemy over range. So whatever melee weapon you give them, it would be used like the knife in Counter Strike: being drawn only to run faster.

I think being almost helpless in melee against pure infantry is an important aspect of balance and class design for archers.

The problem is the game mode, where infantry has (also) to kill archers. Change the game mode to something which involves conquering one or more flags, and the problem of kiting will be gone, because kiting will not help you conquering the flag, and infantry doesn't need to run after archers any more to win the fight.

[Overdriven]

Ah that's the other thing. In WotR armour is actually effective against ranged. Badly places shots glance and the like. With the scoreboard though a good archer could still do well. In that respect it makes a lot of sense the way it's designed. Archers aren't as hard hitting as they are in crpg unless you place your shots very well. All I can say is that everything you are describing doesn't happen in that game. That ranged system is just better flat out but it would require a lot of change to implement it here.

You are very insistent on this game mode thing  Mind you WotR also has a conquest gamemode and that is where I'm drawing my experience from.

[Joker86]

You are very insistent on this game mode thing  Mind you WotR also has a conquest gamemode and that is where I'm drawing my experience from.

I am very insistend on it, because I think it would solve a LOT of problems, and players would actually start to play the game properly, instead of that "We are a bunch of Rambo-autowalker-lemmings who incidentally happen to spawn together, and we run towards the enemy to see who can click and move his mouse faster, and hopefully I will be at the top of the scoreboard by killing as many of them by my own as possible."-behaviour.

It would change the feel of the game completely, probably even more than the upkeep system did. I haven't played TwoR yet, but I am dead sure the game mode does have an influence on what you decribed, even more than the running speed and glancing shots have. It's still an assumption, though, so I can't know. I can be wrong with everything, of course. 

[Templar_Steevee]

IMO many ppl forget one simple thing:
Archer is a class made for killing others from a distance, not in face to face situation.
They have to run to make a proper distance to shoot an enemy.

Slowing them down should be only be only in a moment when an archer want to draw a bow, aim and shoot.

[Dalfador]

Then give them melee capabilities.

Archers can have melee capabilities. I was a longbowman with 6 power strike before, had a byrnie, mail coif, leather boots, leather gloves, tatar arrows, and my nordic sword. Not bad for an archer if you ask me.

[Rumblood]

Why is this even about archers? The only ones I see using this to great effect on a consistent basis is throwers and xbowers. Archers in a jump shot contest with those guys are going to lose nearly every time.

[Sultan Eren]

YES!

[sjarken]

all this damn kiting and the fact that most rounds i dont get to swing my mele weapon becouse ranged 1shot or 2shot me be4 i get to the action... (no im not a fool running around like a dumb donkey) And the fact that there is so damn many ranged players.

GIVE ME RANGED,CAV MELE AUTOBALANCE!!!
90%ranged on 1 team or 90% cav on 1 team fucks this game up.
Class autobalance would FIX a this mod/game.