New Players need some love

[Joker86]

What do you want? A download a year's worth of reflexive Warband skill, just follow this link? It should be easier to kill those skilled players? How? By making the game less skilled?

No, those skilled players won't be killed more easily. But there will be enough other badly skilled players which can be killed by you very well. There is a difference if 90% of all players are better than you or 50%, for example. There is no need to lower the skill ceiling, like you are implying with WoW.

[Thomek]

Not talking about lowering the skill ceiling here.. Just helping players a bit on the first gen thats all.

STF is more for experimenting and bored old players to have fun with. When you start out you want to progress, think most people play their STF's when their mains are all loomed up.

[Rumblood]

When you start out you want to progress, think most people play their STF's when their mains are all loomed up.

Or when you don't know how to play. Let them switch an STF to Main with the same gear and gold they earned and the only thing they lose is a small amount of experience towards a retirement.

[Patoson]

What do you want? A download a year's worth of reflexive Warband skill, just follow this link? It should be easier to kill those skilled players? How? By making the game less skilled? Sorry, I wouldn't want to play that game, no matter how many people are playing it. I don't play World of Warcraft or similar games.

In fact, cRPG resembles WoW in the sense of levelling (slow and tedious). We are talking about the opposite: faster levelling. Not like the origin of cRPG, but something in between.

[Rumblood]

In fact, cRPG resembles WoW in the sense of levelling (slow and tedious). We are talking about the opposite: faster levelling. Not like the origin of cRPG, but something in between.

What will faster leveling do that STF won't instantly? It isn't about levels, it is about skill and try as much as you like, you won't level the playing field where skill is concerned except by reducing the required skill to play the game and do "well". The only valid complaint is they can't buy into cavalry right away. So give every new character a rouncey.

[Zerran]

It really has very little to do with gear or level. Once you're around lvl 20 and have mid-tier gear, you've got a good enough setup to be able to contribute. The problem is that the playerbase is 90% veteran players (by which I mean people who have been playing for a year or more, let's not get into a terminology debate  ) and even of that 10% remaining, most of them have been playing for a few months. So what we end up with is a situation where any new players are going up against people with vastly more experience. No matter what you do for them, it's going to suck until they get some practice. If you don't occasionally "air-out" the playerbase in a game as skill-dependent (or gear dependent), you will inevitably end up with a situation like this.

I don't have an answer for what we can do about this. The obvious solution is a huge influx of new players, and a steady stream of them after that. The only problem is we have very little control over that sort of thing.

[Spa_geh_tea]

It really has very little to do with gear or level. Once you're around lvl 20 and have mid-tier gear, you've got a good enough setup to be able to contribute. The problem is that the playerbase is 90% veteran players (by which I mean people who have been playing for a year or more, let's not get into a terminology debate  ) and even of that 10% remaining, most of them have been playing for a few months. So what we end up with is a situation where any new players are going up against people with vastly more experience. No matter what you do for them, it's going to suck until they get some practice. If you don't occasionally "air-out" the playerbase in a game as skill-dependent (or gear dependent), you will inevitably end up with a situation like this.

I don't have an answer for what we can do about this. The obvious solution is a huge influx of new players, and a steady stream of them after that. The only problem is we have very little control over that sort of th

Gear matters. A player will get more kills, survive longer due to dead enemies, in direct proportion to the speed and base damage of their weapon. This is a fact of crpg.

A player will survive more hits and force more glances in direct proportion to their armor value. Surviving longer to get more kills. This is also a fact of crpg.

Some players are use to certain weapons and armor weights than others. But I know for a fact that if I use a hatchet in a tunic I will not survive as long or kill as many if I was in mail with a broad axe.

Char level is most important, then gear, then skill.

I agree with your solution, get more noobs. Perhaps have a gen 1-3 only server instead of a 1-20 level.
 
Or a general no looms tdm server(more chances to die, kill, learn than battle or siege).

[Joker86]

Char level is most important, then gear, then skill.

This is only true on low levels. Like 1-15 or 1-20. Later skill becomes the decisive element. Level and gear only help.

[F i n]

you should play on the below lvl 20 server. Your oponents are not allowed to use high tier equipment. and you get more xp!

[CrazyCracka420]

I stopped reading at page 4.

The problem with some of the new players is that they come in thinking they are going to be able to 1v1 someone who's in higher level gear, has a lot more skills and attributes, and has been playing the game for 2 years.  And even veterans are in here arguing to make it easier for new players, but that's the wrong thing to do.  They should be learning how to fight as a team, we shouldn't be enabling their rambo/hero mentality, and we shouldn't be discussing the plights of new players with that thought in our heads.

The attitude is the problem is a lot of situations, not just with new players.  Your objective is to be a team player, it's to support your team in any way possible, to achieve victory.  Your objective is not to zerg rush the enemy and try to kill one person before being slaughtered by 20 enemies who surround you. 

Regardless of your class, every single new player should be using a pitchfork and sticking with a few infantry players to try and support them.  Now that you are all enlightened, please close this thread (it's the same one that pops up every week).

[Joker86]

Now that you are all enlightened, please close this thread (it's the same one that pops up every week).

You actually missed the topic 

It's not about lowering the skill ceiling, it's about preventing situations which can be frustrating for some new players, to prevent them of leaving. We can argue if we want to prevent them of leaving, but if we want (to keep the dwindling player numbers up), then we need to do something about it, because not everybody loves running around as a helpless peasant.

[CrazyCracka420]

not everybody loves running around as a helpless peasant

So what I said about attitude is 100% on topic.  That's the wrong attitude to have.  You're not a helpless peasant at gen 1, level 1.  You can very much contribute and help your team win rounds. 

If you go up 1v1 versus Cyranule as a level 1 peasant with a pitchfork, then yes, you are helpless. But you ideally wouldn't be in that situation until your teammates were all dead.  You should be fighting (insert good melee char here) with a group of your teammates, not by yourself.

[rustyspoon]

Gear matters. A player will get more kills, survive longer due to dead enemies, in direct proportion to the speed and base damage of their weapon. This is a fact of crpg.

A player will survive more hits and force more glances in direct proportion to their armor value. Surviving longer to get more kills. This is also a fact of crpg.

Some players are use to certain weapons and armor weights than others. But I know for a fact that if I use a hatchet in a tunic I will not survive as long or kill as many if I was in mail with a broad axe.

Char level is most important, then gear, then skill.

I agree with your solution, get more noobs. Perhaps have a gen 1-3 only server instead of a 1-20 level.
 
Or a general no looms tdm server(more chances to die, kill, learn than battle or siege).

I definitely disagree with the gear part. Most gear (everything but the very bottom stuff usually) is very well balanced between itself. There are viable reasons to take a lower-tier piece of gear over another.

And though level is important, I still think skill is more important. Once you have 4PS and a blunt/pierce weapon, you can start getting TONS of kills if you know how to block and are good at dodging ranged. If you're raising your stats balanced, (alternating between agi and str) and you are being conservative with your points you can have a 12/12 2h/pole build at level 17. If you only ever get an x1, you can do that in 6 hours and 43 minutes. But as most people average out to a multi of x2, it will take you 3 hours and 21 minutes. Not that big of a deal.

[Joker86]

So what I said about attitude is 100% on topic.  That's the wrong attitude to have.  You're not a helpless peasant at gen 1, level 1.  You can very much contribute and help your team win rounds. 

If you go up 1v1 versus Cyranule as a level 1 peasant with a pitchfork, then yes, you are helpless. But you ideally wouldn't be in that situation until your teammates were all dead.  You should be fighting (insert good melee char here) with a group of your teammates, not by yourself.

This is to be expected by a random 16 years old (at the best  ) boy who just bought Warband on Steam sale and read about cRPG being the most popular mod? I fear I have to disagree.

Neither the mod description nor the general gameplay on the servers nor the manual nor the website or anything else tells you about teamplay. There are only those well hidden topics in the beginner section about it. Actually I think it is only the one topic Phazh and me and a few other contributed to, which is lingering somewhere in the lower third of the beginner guide forum.

To be honest, most veteran players in cRPG still have massive problems with teamplay. 

I don't believe you if you claim that when you started playing cRPG you were exited about the teamplay you were going to enjoy with the others. You were exited about leveling your character, expecting to become powerful and well equipped and to find the most OP build to dominate everybody else and be as dangerous for the other as the top players were for you at that moment. cRPG is about YOUR character, YOUR skills, equipment and heirlooms, it's about YOUR progress. Until today I am waiting for the developers to make something into the direction of WE, but it seems like I can wait until I get grey hair... or let's say fully gray hair, because I am 26 and about 30% of my initially dark brown hair is already grey. 

New players connect to the servers in expectation of killing something. If they get the impression this game is something for nerds who have to grind forever and develop mad skillz, although they were only looking for a fun game which is not always the same boring Call of Duty shooter thingy but with the similar depth, then they will leave and never come back. And I find it's a pity, because even if they don't contribute anything else, they keep the servers populated and represent kills (=motivation) for other, more dedicated players.

Don't forget that cRPG/Warband is (still) unique in its kind. Players who don't know it and hear of a multiplayer game with persistant characters either think of something like World of Warcraft, where you are always fighting people of about the same level in PvP, or games like Call of Duty, where you can get better rifles and perks over time, but you are always able to shoot the highest level guy with your starting rifle. And if you got the better reflexes, it wasn't even really luck!

cRPG is unique in its difference between a lvl1 gen1 peasant player and a lvl 33 gen15 tincan player. I don't know a single game where the differences are that big which does not have any mechanics to prevent such incredibly unfair fights. There needs to be a reason for that.

[Dexxtaa]

Watch OP become the next big cRPG name.

Then he'll look back at this thread, mouse hovering over the "delete thread" button, and scoff at his former self, asking for a gentler learning curve.

A muttered "silly me" emerges from his lips, as he realizes how those hours spent dying at the hands of other combatants has taught him lessons he couldn't have learned otherwise. Lessons of patience, of perseverance and of communication.

The mouse moves away from the delete button, and he browses the rest of the forums, eager to find the next new fighter to the mod, and enthusiastically give them advice and empower them to be patient. Because in time, this young fighter will learn the same lessons he did; the lessons no one could tell him, but must be experienced.

He replies to the young fighter complaining about being killed too easily, and links this thread with the appended comment "I too, was once in your place. And you - such as I before you - will rise."