The cav problem, Induced by GK

[Renegat]

You consider village map as not cav friendly? lol
I mentioned the commercial city (only 1 map as far as i know, if there's more then it appears realy rarely), swadian riot? Dunno this one (actually i never check maps' name, but if it's one which appear a lot, then it's that i don't see it as a not friendly cav map).

If the number of 50% city map like some idiot said was real, i would stop arguing with poeple like you immediatly, cause i would at least have fun every two maps.

[Kafein]

The most determining factor for the cav-friendliness of maps is how ridiculous the terrain is. And a very large number of village maps are extremely hilly.

A GK stack on a map with either building spam (they block sight which is good for cav, but they give camping spots which is bad) or lunar terrain slopes will die horribly.


Infantry and archer clanstacks don't suffer from the same dependance on map design.

[BattalGazi]

Teamwork is the solution to all of your problems. The thing is, we know our advantages and disadvantages and we act upon them as a clan. That might be a problem for those who lack the info about basic mechanics of the game or lack the need for team play.

There have been many incidents where we failed to win on open maps, just because the enemy team was well organized. It is very funny tho, in these situations similar people tend to troll us about how hard we failed although it was an open map.

I kindly ask you to read guides and explanation on forums, get involved in team play and stop pointing at clans.

[Kerrigan]

Time for a short but serious response.

I agree that cav being stacked is not a good thing and I can see how it can make people rage. Two days ago I think we had about 8 GK in one team and another like 5 random cav with us while the other team had only 3 cav. The way people play on cRPG these days, if the map is right (like open plains) this will most likely mean the team with the most cav is going to win. That night we happened to get like 3 to 4 nice open maps and we destroyed the other team which caused people to rage. On the other hand, if it were a village map the team with the cav stacked would certainly have the disadvantage(if the people are smart enough to go into the village) and lose. Trust me, I am not going to lie here, we lose plenty of times when stacked together, especially in village maps, city maps and random steppe with hills. The only maps where we excel are the flat maps and really, I do not see them very often on EU_1. Even when on an open map, if the enemy would play as a team they can beat us, for sure. Have confidence in yourselves people.

I do not know how they are supposed to fix this balance thing though, because I reckon many people want to keep the clan banner balance. But I guess there is a solution to be found.

Also ranged being stacked should be fixed.

[Corsair831]

tbh the only problem i have with GK is their HA's ... i have no problem with their 12 lancers that try and attack me, because i know i can take a few horses down with me, but against 3, 4 HA's, there's just nothing to be done.

They just all shoot one target dead, then move on, then move on, then move on ...

what do you do against the HA's ?!

P.S. i think i finally understood why the romans lost their wars to the huns ;)

[Torben]

(click to show/hide)

Teamwork is the solution to all of your problems. The thing is, we know our advantages and disadvantages and we act upon them as a clan. That might be a problem for those who lack the info about basic mechanics of the game or lack the need for team play.

There have been many incidents where we failed to win on open maps, just because the enemy team was well organized. It is very funny tho, in these situations similar people tend to troll us about how hard we failed although it was an open map.

I kindly ask you to read guides and explanation on forums, get involved in team play and stop pointing at clans.

lactose is not pointing fingers and raging about you,  but saying that because of banner balance,  it happens that a clan heavy on one class disrupts the highly banner dependent distribution of classes amongst teams.  this thread,  although appearing at first as so,  is not about you.

[Kafein]

lactose is not pointing fingers and raging about you,  but saying that because of banner balance,  it happens that a clan heavy on one class disrupts the highly banner dependent distribution of classes amongst teams.  this thread,  although appearing at first as so,  is not about you.

I say that's a problem that shouldn't be one.


A balanced army should have the advantage over any class stack. But it doesn't seem to be the case. Sometimes it's very clear like when you have 5 archers vs 5 anything else at the end of a round, sometimes proving it would require statistical evidence.

Fixing clan stacking is not about focring teams to be class-balanced, it's about making class-unbalanced teams weak.

[BattalGazi]

what do you do against the HA's ?!

Bribe Donation works so I have heard ...

[Torben]

(click to show/hide)

I say that's a problem that shouldn't be one.


A balanced army should have the advantage over any class stack. But it doesn't seem to be the case. Sometimes it's very clear like when you have 5 archers vs 5 anything else at the end of a round, sometimes proving it would require statistical evidence.

Fixing clan stacking is not about focring teams to be class-balanced, it's about making class-unbalanced teams weak.

furthermore its highly dependent on skill and level of the class.  1 bagge is worht more than 5 mid class archers.

[BlindGuy]

There have been many incidents where we failed to win on open maps, because enemy team had no afks and peasants in spawn to gankrape from horseback like we all love to do in our clan.

Fixed it for you, free of charge man, thats one you owe me.


Back on topic: RENAME the thread, GK are not an issue other than their ganking of slow spawners, they have maybe 2 or 3 decent fighters, and almost every clan HAD better cav players. Unfortunatly, ppl DO get bored of this game or playing cav, so now players see GK as being good. I will now quote the egyptian god Lord Osiris.

Just be happy that most gk are mediocre cav, they are annoying on mass but most of the cav players i really feared dont play much and are spread across the clans, its not like your facing leed tommy torben tuonela etc on the same team everyday :-P

This. Cav are not an issue, BALANCE is an issue, but since there is NO way a program can decide what class a player has made with his character without generalising and STILL getting it wrong, balance will never be fixed. Just fight, do your best, at least now you can get valour when on a team of zergnubs by just doing your thing, playing your game.

EDIT: have to add Riddaren to list of feared cav, he is fucking KING of being where you dont want him, doing what you dont want him to do

[Tindel]

All rounds in battle are won by the team with best infantry tactics.

Archers and cav are support classes, they can neither take nor hold ground.
A group of infantry playing together will fucking demolish a archer heavy or cav heavy team.

Go to EU1 and spectate some rounds, see where in the round the losing team fails or where the winning team wins.
I can promise you its not because OMFG WE GOT PWNT BY CAV NERF NERF.
It is because people run around like headless chickens and get ganked.

If the archers stick with the infantry the cav will be shot to pieces or die in vain while trying to attack a unit of infantry.

[BattalGazi]

Fixed it for you, free of charge man, thats one you owe me.

Oh c'mon are you telling me that enemy team wins by the help of peasants and afk guys? What happened to your input for your team dude 

[Joseph Porta]

A good cav, like me, rides his sumpter "W" down, no matter what map, untill he either dies or gloriously wins the round for his team.My point is that nearly áll the maps are cav friendly, only one map i can think of thats anti-cav -- the one with the basement, i think people already said it but other then that one theres no real anti cav map, unless we get a random plains with crazy hills and such. 

This is as a reaction to the cav map discussion, not what the op said.

[Zanze]

Counter Cav? Bring a spear. (Or ranged attack, heavens forbid)
Counter HA? Bring a Shield.
Counter both? Bring Both.

Oh, annoyed you have to change you playstyle completely to bring a shield AND spear? All that means is that cav and HA are the rock to your scissors. Move along. NA had the same problem when Pro was a big stack of courser riding lancers. They would win every round until people started bringing throwing and spearmen started popping up.

[MB passionately]

Was there yesterday evening (guess it was the reason for this thread), as cav and hoplite in both teams, therefore as predator and prey

But 90% of time i was prey. Rarely had 2 hours of crpg like that. No chance, no fun, heavy repairs, no xp. Was so frustrated I went to shitty siege...Why most of the games sucked?

Was a combination of factors:

-a lot of cav friendly maps (like shitty oasis with no cover for inf)
-a lot of GKs (doesnt happen often but yesterday >10 players of them)
-no other major inf clan as counterpart in the other team
-few players <60 at the end, therefore in one team more than 50% cav

To condemn GK in general, dont know, heaven to hunt with them, hell to spawn late or be a shieldless trooper encircled by them

Blame the game? The game is not able to cope with those "factors", coming all together

Class limit would be an idea 70% inf, 15% ranged, 15% cav, but that was discussed already