[BALANCE] Couch Lance

[Kafein]

Sorry for the self-quote but I think it needs to be posted here as well.

This really looks good on paper, but I think it would have horrible consequences.


I think nobody wants a surge of jousting lance 9/33 cavalry, but that is what is going to happen if regular lances become unable to couch. That kind of build is already too effective given it's small upkeep (for cav).

Regular lances losing couch attack means jousting lances will be more popular, and with a couch-only lance you don't care at all about strenght, which lets you get 11 or even 12 riding.

[Teeth]

9/33 jousting lance cav would in no way be more powerful than the omnipotent heavy lance cav. What is the use of 11 or 12 riding if you'll have to use it to ride in circles while you wait for the 20 second cooldown after you hit something.

I doubt anyone would even go jousting lance cav, but if a few do, hurray more variety on the battlefield. I remember everytime I played with a heavy lance I barely ever used couching. Another example is Schmacko, top notch cav player who always tops the scoreboard, but never couches. Heavy lance is strong enough without it. Pure couch is not that strong.

Again, even on my 12/24 couch build, I do way better with a heavy lance, with which I never couch, than with a great lance.

[Kafein]

9/33 jousting lance cav would in no way be more powerful than the omnipotent heavy lance cav. What is the use of 11 or 12 riding if you'll have to use it to ride in circles while you wait for the 20 second cooldown after you hit something.

I doubt anyone would even go jousting lance cav, but if a few do, hurray more variety on the battlefield. I remember everytime I played with a heavy lance I barely ever used couching. Another example is Schmacko, top notch cav player who always tops the scoreboard, but never couches. Heavy lance is strong enough without it. Pure couch is not that strong.

Again, even on my 12/24 couch build, I do way better with a heavy lance, with which I never couch, than with a great lance.

You must have seen Lungy playing at least once. I can guarantee you that you do not want anymore people with that kind of build, as anything more gay is automatically ranged. The cooldown is only a minor issue, as it is largely balanced by the number of kills you do not miss to lag/latency or because it wasn't a oneshot (with 11 riding, a jousting lance oneshots almost everything).

Couched lances only apply in cav vs cav when you were able to sneak up on someone so the class that will be hurt the most by an increase in those is infantry.

11+ riding also offers excellent survivability compared to other cav setups simply because you can spend very little time in dangerous zones and do your job even better as dodging that is much harder, all of this wearing peasant rags of course.


Overall, I'd say super high agi cav does just as good as a good classic cav player, but it's way cheaper and you don't need much training do start doing good.

[Torben]

People keep forgetting that couching only works on level ground. Anything that slows down the horse, like sloped terrain, will cancel the couch.

Hop on the small hill and couching cav will have to pull out a swinging weapon.

Overall, +1 to suggestion.

champion arab and courser with 8+ riding and you can couch up slopes. with the right line i can do it with six riding already

[BlindGuy]

THIS IS A RAGE POST. A hero doesnt like that sometimes he is killed by couches. Its really just that. Heavy lance is a superweapon, sure, its supposed to be, without paying upkeep for a horse u are not gonna use the heavylance. I dont play cav at all cause I fucking suck at it, but of all cav that attack me as an archer, shielder, 2hander, lancers are the LEAST effective and LEAST scary, they can only get you with a back attack or when you are already being ganked, and the first: Be aware, and second, once your attacked from behind while already being ganked, wtf does it matter if it was a couch lance, an arrow, a pike, dead is dead. The OP is LITERALLY in the minority:

Despite what he may say about how from his experience blah blah blah blah, this thread was made cause he was playing 1hander no shield, the only class lancers can engage head on, simply by couching/thrusting at max angle as they turn away from enemy. This way 1hander cannot hit back without being lanced. This makes lancers the ONLY melee enemy that Teeth cannot get a sneaky hit on with the ghost reach on rightswing.

This OP was, very basically: Scissors claiming that rock is OP.

[Torben]

(click to show/hide)

THIS IS A RAGE POST. A hero doesnt like that sometimes he is killed by couches. Its really just that. Heavy lance is a superweapon, sure, its supposed to be, without paying upkeep for a horse u are not gonna use the heavylance. I dont play cav at all cause I fucking suck at it, but of all cav that attack me as an archer, shielder, 2hander, lancers are the LEAST effective and LEAST scary, they can only get you with a back attack or when you are already being ganked, and the first: Be aware, and second, once your attacked from behind while already being ganked, wtf does it matter if it was a couch lance, an arrow, a pike, dead is dead. The OP is LITERALLY in the minority:

Despite what he may say about how from his experience blah blah blah blah, this thread was made cause he was playing 1hander no shield, the only class lancers can engage head on, simply by couching/thrusting at max angle as they turn away from enemy. This way 1hander cannot hit back without being lanced. This makes lancers the ONLY melee enemy that Teeth cannot get a sneaky hit on with the ghost reach on rightswing.

This OP was, very basically: Scissors claiming that rock is OP.

haha,  nice pov

[Malaclypse]

This makes lancers the ONLY melee enemy that Teeth cannot get a sneaky hit on with the ghost reach on rightswing.

This OP was, very basically: Scissors claiming that rock is OP.

Original Poster was Bjord I'm p-sure.

[Bjord]

Original Poster was Bjord I'm p-sure.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

This way 1hander cannot hit back without being lanced. This makes lancers the ONLY melee enemy that Teeth cannot get a sneaky hit on with the ghost reach on rightswing.

This OP was, very basically: Scissors claiming that rock is OP.

1h right swing ain't got ghostreach you just suck and GTeethX didn't make the thread, and GTeethX ragerespec'd to polearmer and he never used first person so he wasn't even a proper 1h god like that one American guy.

[Spa_geh_tea]

Remove couch from all non joustingg lancess, increase great lance length to outreach heavy lance thrust.

Done.

[sF_Guardian]

Remove couch from all non joustingg lances, increase great lance length to outreach heavy lance thrust.

Done.

I guess noone wants the Lance of Compensation back...

(click to show/hide)

Except of VANDAMME and TheFinn

[Spa_geh_tea]

I guess noone wants the Lance of Compensation back...

(click to show/hide)

Except of VANDAMME and TheFinn

Yeah that one was too extreme, I'm talking about just enough to ensure a joust lance will connect first 70% of the time. Currently its heavy lance 98% of the time.

[Joker86]

1. Couching IS easymode. I bet if they ever find the Ark of the Convenant, there will be a third stone plate, claiming that couching is easymode, carved into stone by gods will and power. "11. Thou shall not couch your next, for this is lame an not my will."

2. Even if 99% of all attacks with heavy lance are stabs, if you remove that 1% and reduce the versatility you can't really say it's a nerf, but you would fix internal lancer balance, at least a bit

3. Pure couching indeed is still sub par compared to backstab-lancing (note that this was a RELATIVE statement  ), so a few buffs to couch only lances could be applied.

4. Afraid of 9/33 builds? Increase the STR requirement of couch only lances. Or how about taking STR into calculation, to inflict one or more or all of the following aspects:

- couch damage
- couch duration
- couch recovery time

This would represent a nice counterweight to the AGI-spec, where you gain more speed and maneuverability. You would have to make choices, and creating characters would become interesting, adding versatility to the game. Not like horse crossbowman, where there is literally no value in putting anything into STR above the crossbow requirement.

[camperus]

Leave horse"man" do wat they want but leave me aloneeeeeeeee visitors can't see pics , please register or login

[Bjord]

I'm going cav, probably respeccing. Then I will abuse the shit out of couch lance. Trust me, it won't be a pretty sight.