How to make archery more fun for everyone

[Teeth]

Even on level 30 archers already now can have a nice PS and some points into melee.

Problem is that most archers will rather max out athletics and wm, even on higher levels, just so they can kite instead of fight.

There are viable archer hybrids that can fight back, without hindering the WPF too much, but I guess most people like to play like cowards.

10 wpf difference that one will get by going from 18/24 to 18/27 is negligible, waste of points that could've gone to PS.

Yep, that's why nerfing kiting and forcing melee capabilities are required to stop kiting and to make the game better.

[Cup1d]

10 wpf difference that one will get by going from 18/24 to 18/27 is negligible, waste of points that could've gone to PS.

Difference between two 6 pd builds, first with 160 and second 180 is like difference between 0 and 150 wpf in melee weapon. Thanks to the PD/wpf penalty.

All what we have now is overnerfed bows requirements, rate of fire, arrow speed, arrows quantity and ridiculous air friction. That's why people forced to make «All In» characters with all possible wpf in archery.
And I already said that slot system is meh.

[Adamar]

There are viable archer hybrids that can fight back, without hindering the WPF too much, but I guess most people like to play like cowards.

What cupid said, and armor makes you less accurate by itself. Archers are oriented to play like cowards. If the class was reworked like teeth said or similiar, that wouldn't be necessary.

[MrShine]

Even on level 30 archers already now can have a nice PS and some points into melee.

Problem is that most archers will rather max out athletics and wm, even on higher levels, just so they can kite instead of fight.

There are viable archer hybrids that can fight back, without hindering the WPF too much, but I guess most people like to play like cowards.

10 wpf difference that one will get by going from 18/24 to 18/27 is negligible, waste of points that could've gone to PS.

For the traditional level 30 build of 18/21 an archer has exactly 3 points to put into melee after maxing out archer based skills.  3 PS isn't exactly "nice PS".
If they want to put points into effective melee capabilities they need to directly reduce their running speed, ranged damage or accuracy.   

Pretty much the only viable archer hybrid build IMO is 15/21.. I've done that in the past w/ a MW horn bow & MW bodkins as well as a Langes sidearm, and was able to do pretty well.  18/18 is doable, but you'll need to put pretty much all your wpf into archery if you want to counteract all the restrictions based on PD. 

Also I disagree that 10 wpf is negligible for ranged.  Every little bit helps infinitely more than melee, since it affects accuracy as well as draw speed.  Oftentimes it means the difference between getting a shot off at an incoming cav and being a lance ornament.

Let me put it this way - everyone is talking about how archers can change their builds, where point placement is crucial.  Yet when it comes to the traditional 21/18 melee build it is FAR easier to carve 2 or 3 points out to wear a shield and reduce a BUNCH of ranged woes while still being highly effective in melee.  Yet we see how willing melee players are to do THAT 

[Shub]

cause for archery there is no such thing as "enough" WPF .Thats the only skill that WPF actually matters. You can shoot with even 132 archery it all depends on bow choice and armor.

i think u dont get the point : Archer being able to fight with  range u on very close distance has to stop.  Archer who can run away from enemies  on close distance is a
must stay. He must be forced to run away FASTER then 1 m away from u after arrow stun u. GEt IT?

[Pejlaen]

Please, please, please yes

If archers were remade so that one quiver was equivalent of 2 and one slot was just pure melee weapon slot, it would've added so much. I dont think it could make archers imbalanced, it would just add so much fun to being an archer, and also for many it will be an alternative to kiting.

[Shub]

peasant u headshot and he is dead. dont wane run away? take  a wep and block/attack np. If u can fight 2hander in close range with a bow that smth is broken sir. BOW is a support weapon , not archer , bow is. Archer can and should be competitive always , just not with a bow in close combat.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Remove kiting and do so that the closer to your target you are the less damage you do, if possible, so a facehugging my old friendcher would glance on his headshot and a good archer with a decent aim will onehit guys miles away.

[MrShine]

Remove kiting and do so that the closer to your target you are the less damage you do, if possible, so a facehugging my old friendcher would glance on his headshot and a good archer with a decent aim will onehit guys miles away.

Think about your suggestion for another moment.  Is that really what you want?

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Think about your suggestion for another moment.  Is that really what you want?

Yes

[Tzar]

Tennoth is a perfect example that not only is it possible to be a really good archer and also carry a usefull melee weapon but also show that unlike him people just tend to min max an just kite instead since its more easy for them if they dunno how to fight in melee..

I like your suggestion Teeth but lets not forgot that many archers do it simply because they cant Manuel block or cant be arsed to learn it.

[MrShine]

Yes

Then I don't think you realize how your suggestion would play out, since it would encourage kiting even more.  If every step someone takes towards me as an archer reduces my potential damage, I'm just going to keep running further and further away.

Also it doesn't take a genius to figure out the next round of 'nerf archery' threads.

"OMG I just took 80% damage from an archer a mile away, blah blah blah no chance to defend myself nerf archers"

Sorry but it's a really bad suggestion.

[Vodner]

Remove kiting and do so that the closer to your target you are the less damage you do, if possible, so a facehugging my old friendcher would glance on his headshot and a good archer with a decent aim will onehit guys miles away.

I much prefer having archers who are close to the main group, myself.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Then I don't think you realize how your suggestion would play out, since it would encourage kiting even more.  If every step someone takes towards me as an archer reduces my potential damage, I'm just going to keep running further and further away.

Also it doesn't take a genius to figure out the next round of 'nerf archery' threads.

"OMG I just took 80% damage from an archer a mile away, blah blah blah no chance to defend myself nerf archers"

Sorry but it's a really bad suggestion.

If you take an arrow from a mile away you're either stationary, running in a straight line, or really unlucky, I said nerf close range (only talking actual facehug range here) AND slow 'em down in general.
And once they can't kite forever their speed an accuracy deserves a slight buff, but eh, remove that gay bullshit first.

[MrShine]

Well at least you recognize that buffing long distance shots/nerfing close range shots is equivalent to nerfing archers across the board since long range shots are mostly luck.  Even against someone standing still, a long range shot is luck based since your reticule will never be small enough to consistently hit something.  And if your reticule is that small, you're using a bow that has slow draw speed & would need some ridiculous arc to the shot.

Slowing archers down isn't the problem - archers get run down eventually.  I have 7 athletics and I don't have many problems with hunting an archer down, because after 1 or 2 shots while I close it's off to the races and they won't be able to make much ground on me to safely fire another.  Meanwhile they become easy pickings for my teams cav or other ranged that can pick em off as they run in a straight line away from me.

If I run into an archer I can't run down, or a bunch of archers who split, then I find another target and let them come to me, just like I do if I run into a group of infantry, or a horse archer/HX, or thrower, or lance cav, or... pretty much everyone else in the game.