Really fucking tired of those "ruin" buildings in every fucking map

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

[Gurnisson]

Throws upwards, complains about having to use more than one throw

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[Miwiw]

Cover is a good thing and needed on any good map. Otherwise its quite unfair for both infantry and archers. You can't expect an Archer to take a 2 slot spear to stop horses.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Throws upwards, complains about having to use more than one throw

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Has to throw upwards 'cuss getting up on level with the archers is impossible might as well just give them back their unreachable rooftops.

Cover is a good thing and needed on any good map. Otherwise its quite unfair for both infantry and archers. You can't expect an Archer to take a 2 slot spear to stop horses.

There is a difference with some decent cover and letting all archers camp unreachable unhittable spots that they're perfectly capable of shooting from, how the fuck can you consider it right that archers get immunity from all other enemies while still being able to shoot? Also, archers don't need a spear, 9 out of 10 archers can dodge lancers due to insane ath and peasant gear and they can also shoot a horse coming fullspeed at them and due to decent accuracy and facehug range headshot with ease.

[Sarpton]

I think the deployable anti cav spikes is a great idea.  Always have.   And if to many archers I go to siege or the melee only server.   Or take off most of my gear and "not-quite-leech-but-pretty-much-leech." with my white tunic and practice sword.

[Miwiw]

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There is a difference with some decent cover and letting all archers camp unreachable unhittable spots that they're perfectly capable of shooting from, how the fuck can you consider it right that archers get immunity from all other enemies while still being able to shoot? Also, archers don't need a spear, 9 out of 10 archers can dodge lancers due to insane ath and peasant gear and they can also shoot a horse coming fullspeed at them and due to decent accuracy and facehug range headshot with ease.

It's a decent cover and especially to hide from cav. An archer can hardly dodge more than 1 cav in the open. Even if they had 10 ATH (which no one has). An Archer should be able to dodge enemy cav (at least one, or if enemy cav behaves in a stupid way, ie. cannot handle the speed). Doing an headshot on an enemy cav is not that easy, its not a free kill but what do you expect (sure there are many archers playing for 2 years, ofc they are able to do so)? Should a cav get always a free kill when fighting an archer. How fair would that be? (and leave your archer hate out of this please)

If Archers or any other class are hiding in a ruin, they can do it. As cav you either wait for support of infantry, other archers or cav or you dismount and charge in. For that you should of course have a melee weapon or even a shield. A dedicated throwing build of course has problems with many things, especially a horse thrower (who needs some love though, not only due to upkeep).

e: regarding your poll answers. hiding in a ruin is not similar to roofcamping. Theres no needed jumping involved or ladders like in the past. You can simply walk into it without any problem. You only have a problem if you are getting shot or have no melee weapon, but its your own decision if you neither have.

[Son Of Odin]

Vote options tldr . Cba to reed.

[Werfried]

Ruins are still better then these endless, boring open maps, where two shieldwalls sit on two hills and nothing happens in the first 3 or 4 minutes.

[Gravoth_iii]

Covers are needed, otherwise cav will be even more OP.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

It's a decent cover and especially to hide from cav. Decent cover=Unreachable? lol, archers should NOT be unreachable, they can shoot as much as they fucking want, but they should not be able to stand up on their roofs without fucking thinking or watching out and just mindlessly pew pew everyone else 'cuss they're fucking invincible on those roofs, literally, cav can't reach 'em, 100% impossible, they got a severe advantage against all other ranged, and infs can't catch 'em and will be shot to pieces, is that balanced? it's not a decent cover, it's retarded invincibility.
Should a cav get always a free kill when fighting an archer. How fair would that be? (and leave your archer hate out of this please) I don't hate archers, I just hate my old friends who run, the my old friends who teamshot me from a mile away, and the roofcamping bitches. Which sadly, covers pretty much every archer in the mod, and on open ground cav certainly don't get free archer kills, guys like blackbow would headshot anyone who came near, bad players would headshot the full speed horse and then kite onwards, players who don't watch out, at all, or get ganked by 3+ cav, will probably die, and they should die, what you're currently argumenting is that lancers should deal 0 damage to peoples backs, because infs shouldn't be forced into watching out, archers shouldn't be forced to watch out, and cav shouldn't be forced to watch out, at the same time your argument would say that unless the inf is aware he's getting shot at he should be invulnerable to arrows.

If Archers or any other class are hiding in a ruin, they can do it. As cav you either wait for support of infantry were you still can't possibly fight against the archers anyway unless you dismount and therefore stop being cav, and the infantry will not be able to catch the archers, you fucks already got unreachability from inf due to kiting, you don't also fucking deserve cover from other ranged and unreachability from cav without fucking watching out, at all, other archers or cav or you dismount and charge in. For that you should of course have a melee weapon or even a shield. I agree, melee should be the main focus of the mod really, every char should have something spec'd into melee, including archers, they should have ps, then have their kiting taken away, and they should carry a weapon and not just 2-3 stacks of arrows, and then, they got a weapon, so they can watch their fucking back instead of just mindlessly pew pewing from an unreachable spot. A dedicated throwing build of course has problems with many things, especially a horse thrower (who needs some love though, not only due to upkeep).

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Covers are needed, otherwise cav will be even more OP.

There is a big difference between a decent, fair, amount of cover, and 100% immunity.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

lol, Mlekce is the kinda person who'll close his anti archer thread then come over here and 1- my post just 'cuss he is pissed that he got a way higher infamy percentage than me.

[Christo]

Ruins are still better then these endless, boring open maps, where two shieldwalls sit on two hills and nothing happens in the first 3 or 4 minutes.

Guess what's the gamemode called..

Battle?

[Son Of Odin]

lol, Mlekce is the kinda person who'll close his anti archer thread then come over here and 1- my post just 'cuss he is pissed that he got a way higher infamy percentage than me.

Did you see my last post in his thread? (Well I've been having that locking affect on some threads lately... krhm last post in Leshma's locked thread too )

[Sumdum Takeda]

So, archers should stand in an open field where cav, other archers, and godzilla for all I care can rape them at leisure?  Um, no.  Buildings only deter the hardest counter for archers, cav.  It's not OP, it's rock, paper, scissors, balance.  If there's a building with 100 archers crammed in it and you can't assault (cause you're a useless cav in a city map), you pull a trick out of Nord Assault.  Wait for the flag. GG.

Hey, or you could bring a 1h and get off the damn pony.

Next, well see a guy complaining at length why shields are so OP because they can just walk right up to him and slaughter him in that ruined building.  Again.