Buff Throwing - Suggestions

[Plavor]

Since I started crpg, I have seen a lot of range, mostly archers and crossbowmen.

I also saw some throwers but I never saw a thrower topping the scoreboard regularly or even topping the scoreboard.
Although there are few decent throwers, they either run out of ammo before they can kill multiple enemies or they don't do enough dmg ( for example against a tincan ).

Since I wanted to know how the poor throwers felt, I created a STF thrower to see if they really do such a poor dmg as I imagine they do.

I choose the 24/15 build with a bit 5 PS, 8 PT, 5 ATH and 5 WM.

I tested dmg with most of the throwing weapons on the battlefield :

Stones : Not good at all
Throwing Daggers : Actually really effective if you land headshots, but since throwing accuracy is shit even with 140+ wpp and light armor, it's just randomly
Wardarts : Not good at all.
Throwing Hammers : Low dmg, I wonder how STOPHAMMERTIME can kill people with it
(Heavy) Throwing Axes : Decent Dmg, you need 2-3 to kill peasant-light armor and 3-4 to kill medium armor. Against Heavy Armor you need 3-5.
Javelins and Jarids : Same as the throwing axes , but you need more for light armor but less for heavy armor and tincans
Throwing Lances : Full hp enemies will die after 2 throwing lances, if you have bad luck 3.  Tincans survive 3-4 throwing lances.

Result : The most effective throwing weapons are the throwing daggers, heavy throwing axes, javelins and jarids.

You can kill with throwing but due to the big crosshair, its nearly impossible to judge if it was a randomshot or a skillshot.
Although you just have 1 Throwing Lance per stack, you nearly need them all to kill 1 heavily armored person.
I noticed that I run out of ammo after I killed maximal 3 enemies ( if I don't headshot them and hit with all my throwing weapons, 4 stacks )

My suggestion would be to buff throwing somehow. If you really want to do dmg, you have to make a STR build but then you cannot run away since the lag of AGI.
If you make a balanced build, you have more options but all in all, your throwing stuff aren't really effective in dmg.

I really feel sorry to all the decent throwers there and I would really appreciate to buff them , for example to give them more ammo per stack.

These days, it's impossible to make a pure thrower who could kill 5 people on his own in one round.

The only decent thrower I know is STOPHAMMERTIME and even he skilled on powerstrike for melee engagement.

There is no thrower who can hit and run away like archers do, but also no thrower who can do a lot of dmg but has "few" ammo like crossbowmen do.

I don't know if it's supposed to be, but atm it seems like throwing is just a sidearm but you cannot effectively play it with a pure build.

[Son Of Odin]

I would suggest moving this thread into "suggestions corner".

[Lemmy_Winks]

I would suggest moving this thread into "suggestions corner".

Ya, also there are alot more, and i would assume better pure throwers on NA. Its probably the best anti cavalry weapon.

[San]

Maybe a wpf-related chance to retrieve thrown weapons from dead bodies or shields? I think the rate of fire from throwing is its saving grace. The headshot buff also made some of the lower PT throwing weapons useful. Also options high slot throwing weapons with a great ammo count will be nice.

[Torak]

well you shouldent go with only throwing, melee need to hit other players to a lot  befor they go down but we need to go in close and do it its not like we go around 1 hit everyone so why would trowers 1 hit everyone? so do it as its attended combine it with melee, and some throwing weapons are ment to be used on diffrent types of builds and armor,

 play smart

[Leshma]

Haven't played it for a year and a half but it does seem that heavy axes and throwing spears are pretty decent weapons. Also throwing darts aren't bad either. Other weapons looks and feel like crap (when they hit me, I mean).

I could live with higher accuracy of throwing weapons because atm, they aren't easy to dodge. How to dodge a projectile when even thrower doesn't know where it's going to go?

Also buff to underused "crappy" throwing weapons.

I'm against more ammo for two reasons:
1) it will generate even more ranged spam
2) it's buff to pure throwers mainly and like most other pure builds, pure thrower is fantasy bullshit class

[SixThumbs]

I can't really see why you wouldn't have powerstrike as a thrower considering that the secondary mode is melee or you're going to run out of ammo and be hosed anyway scrambling for some sort of weapon. Topping the charts is also moot depending on what the balance decides to do, I've seen two or three throwers basically just instilling fear into the opposing team and causing chaos in a way which makes me think of them as having the role of longspearmen and pikers except they're unblockable (without a shield), longer erratic ranged, and limited use. But, I'm also wary to go after a thrower alone.

[Gurnisson]

Dedicated thrower is a troll class anyway. Funny to play, but isn't (and shouldn't be) the most effective class out there. Anyway, imagine a 21/15 shielder and compare to a 21/15 shielder with PT investment

Now, do you still want to increase the stacks? Buff it too much and every shielder will be a thrower too like in the old days. Right now there's a nice balance between dedicated shielders and shielder/thrower hybrids. Throwing as a secondary is great, speaking from my own experience.

[Thomek]

How to dodge a projectile when even thrower doesn't know where it's going to go?

This is a very good observation..

The idea back in the day, was that they increased accuracy, but lowered projectile speed, so the theory was that it would require more skill to use.

In reality though "predicting the path of the target" has to do with skill only to a certain extent, before quickly turning into "Magic ability to look into the future" which no one can have. Experienced players try to dodge in as random/unpredictable way as possible, therefore adding perceived randomness for the thrower.. The time the projectile uses before it hits is a big problem.

On the other hand, throwing can quickly become too powerful.. I do think though, that it would be more fun to use if the projectiles were flying a bit faster.

[Arathian]

Throwing has a single problem really: it has extremely limited projectiles. To the point that it doesn't justify the extra damage.

Now, you can fix this in 2 ways. The first way is to add a knockdown to the heavier projectiles (heavy axes, javelines) which would improve the spear throwers and give them at least an almost-certain kill.

The second way would be, of course, to improve the melee version of the projectile weapons and remove, or lighten, the armor restrictions so they don't have to walk around in peasant clothes to have a chance in hell in hitting anything.

My 2c. I fully support and like throwers. It seems the class is way too underepresented atm.

[Arathian]

This is a very good observation..

The idea back in the day, was that they increased accuracy, but lowered projectile speed, so the theory was that it would require more skill to use.

In reality though "predicting the path of the target" has to do with skill only to a certain extent, before quickly turning into "Magic ability to look into the future" which no one can have. Experienced players try to dodge in as random/unpredictable way as possible, therefore adding perceived randomness for the thrower.. The time the projectile uses before it hits is a big problem.

On the other hand, throwing can quickly become too powerful.. I do think though, that it would be more fun to use if the projectiles were flying a bit faster.

I don't think the fastness of the projectiles is the problem. A projectile that goes double speed would still have the same problem: the thrower 90% of the time has no idea where it will land. The precision is way too reduced. While it does make them go closer (as they should), it also means that the speed itself is irrelevant.

[Cyclopsided]

Make them more accurate so one could have skill matter. it is the absolute main component missing from throwing. SKill? You're lucky if you hit the guy <4 meters from you.
Higher accuracy Conversely makes them easier to dodge for aware players.

They already fly really slow and not very far, but you could nerf projectile speed to make up for a big accuracy boost.

I went archery because it is shits on throwing in every way conceivable. I couldn't put up with it anymore.

[Meow]

So you put the name of the forum section this belong in into the title but fail to post it in the right location?

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Moving, please post your stuff in the right sections.

On topic: Have an alt thrower and although I got +3 heavy throwing axes I used regular ones since my loomed ones were in the armoury, no way you need 8-10 heavy throwing axes against heavy armor.

They do 44cut and each PT is 10% extra damage.
I figure you made sure your armor is lowering your throwing WPF below ~104 which you will need to actually have 8 PT work.

Pure throwers are more than awesome against cav, with a shield great against any other raged class and pretty much everything should go down in 3 hits max (all talking heavy throwing axes).

Can't tell where you get that numbers from but it sounds far from how it actually plays.

When I got back to crpg somewhen around January 2011 I started out as a thrower and it was awesome, only change that happened since then is the ammo count and that you need enough WPF to actually have your PT work and to pick up the weapons.

Gonna do some testing on the duel server somewhen next week.
Numbers sound way off.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

I also saw some throwers but I never saw a thrower topping the scoreboard regularly or even topping the scoreboard.

Fuck you.
But yeah, give me 2 lances per stack or at least make 'em onehit my old friendchers in the chest with no speed bonus positive or negative from horseback 100% of the time.
Also, more accuracy and a a steeper flight path.

[Riddaren]

I had a 27/12 9PT 100% throwing alt using throwing lances.
The throwing was very accurate and did high damage. Nothing to complain about there.

Dunno how it is with other builds and weapons but throwing is far from underpowered.
Kill 2 horses per round and 2 men and you will top the scoreboard. All you need is 4 throwing lances.

It's probably the most deadly char I've ever played.