NA Tourny Poll 2

[Kalam]

Whole lotta lobbying going on here, on both sides. Rhade is in a very small group and wears light armor, and therefore would like a 5 on 5 with a small budget. Of course. I'm part of a large group and play a cavalry character, and would like to not be held back from using proper equipment for my class and actually employ tactics in a 10 v 10, which is one of the most fun things you can do in this game. It seems some people really just want to duel 5 people in a row, not have Battles.

Thus, 7 v. 7 would be best.

[Rhade]

Your right rhade...i like to roleplay as if i'm better than allers...you should know something about that....

If you're talking about the time the guy showed up to a duel in heavy armor, taking me ten swings to kill him simply one time, then yeah.

Also, I went naked and aced him 2-0.

He was supposed to come to BkS_Central to duel on native but bitched out after he got his ass handed to him wearing heavy armor whilst I was naked. Harmless peasant frapsed it.

The guy is not good, he just shows up to a duel in heavy armor with a "dueling build" and takes a million swings to kill. It was actually the perfect example for why us having a tournament on a cRPG server is a bad thing:

He shows up, in heavy armor to duel me because he wants to prove he's "better."
I hit him 5 times, he hits me once, I die.

People thinks he's a better player.

Obviously there's an issue, and I nor any skilled player I know wants to enter a tournament where these types of things are going to be happening. Tournaments/duels are for proving who's the most skilled, not who has the BEST BUILD or MOST EPIC WOW STYLE PHAT LEWT ARMOR.

[Diomedes]

Obviously there's an issue, and I nor any skilled player I know wants to enter a tournament where these types of things are going to be happening. Tournaments/duels are for proving who's the most skilled, not who has the BEST BUILD or MOST EPIC WOW STYLE PHAT LEWT ARMOR.

You didn't answer my question.  Playing consistently can generate a lot of money, I don't see why players who can afford to buy the gear they want have some sort of advantage over you.  I play in medium-heavy medium armour.  If I had the opportunity to use Goretooth's gear I wouldn't, because that's not the way I want to play.  But if I want to take my unique warhammer into battle, something I'm quite practiced with, then why shouldn't I?  I think I'm just honestly missing your point here.

[Rhade]

You didn't answer my question.  Playing consistently can generate a lot of money, I don't see why players who can afford to buy the gear they want have some sort of advantage over you.  I play in medium-heavy medium armour.  If I had the opportunity to use Goretooth's gear I wouldn't, because that's not the way I want to play.  But if I want to take my unique warhammer into battle, something I'm quite practiced with, then why shouldn't I?  I think I'm just honestly missing your point here.

My point is that a cRPG tournament provides far too many variables:

A) Gear advantage/disadvantage due to who has played more (really? is this wow?)
B) Are you level 30? Are you going to sit at 30 the whole tournament? Probably not, thus you will be at a disadvantage.
C) Does your clan have the perfect scrim composition? If not, you can't adjust to other strats on the fly, your build is permanent thus hamstringing any amount of creative tactics.
D) Heirlooms
E) Skill
F) Tactics

as opposed to what I suggested, meaning the variables would be:

A) Skill
B) Tactics
+ the advantage to all players of not being forced to not retire, also allowing players to adapt on the fly to different class types.


It's pretty cut and dry which is the better *tournament* style. I like cRPG a lot, I enjoy playing casually, but this is not the way to do a tournament.

[Diomedes]

I don't see the difference between that kind of tournament and a Native tournament.  If it's about discerning who has the most skill then that seems like almost the same as test for who "sits around all day with no life."  Most video games aren't hard to get good at given enough time, but finding the right equipment, builds, and team in cRPG takes a discerning eye.  I get what you're trying to say now - I just don't think it's a very good tournament for cRPG mod players.

[Rhade]

I don't see the difference between that kind of tournament and a Native tournament.  If it's about discerning who has the most skill then that seems like almost the same as test for who "sits around all day with no life."  Most video games aren't hard to get good at given enough time, but finding the right equipment, builds, and team in cRPG takes a discerning eye.  I get what you're trying to say now - I just don't think it's a very good tournament for cRPG mod players.

There's a difference between someone who is naturally talented and someone who has played and grinded out x3 heirlooms in every armor piece, or has extremely expensive gear purely through time played. Don't confuse time spent with skill, but you can say that time spent = gear = success.

I disagree entirely with " Most video games aren't hard to get good at given enough time." Some people have been playing since beta and are absolutely terrible while myself, Vanidar and kyky all were absolutely dominating servers within a few days of playing. Anyone can grind (thus the success of WoW), not anyone can rise above the rest on an even playing field.

[ManOfWar]

If you're talking about the time the guy showed up to a duel in heavy armor, taking me ten swings to kill him simply one time, then yeah.

Also, I went naked and aced him 2-0.

He was supposed to come to BkS_Central to duel on native but bitched out after he got his ass handed to him wearing heavy armor whilst I was naked. Harmless peasant frapsed it.

The guy is not good, he just shows up to a duel in heavy armor with a "dueling build" and takes a million swings to kill. It was actually the perfect example for why us having a tournament on a cRPG server is a bad thing:

He shows up, in heavy armor to duel me because he wants to prove he's "better."
I hit him 5 times, he hits me once, I die.

People thinks he's a better player.

Obviously there's an issue, and I nor any skilled player I know wants to enter a tournament where these types of things are going to be happening. Tournaments/duels are for proving who's the most skilled, not who has the BEST BUILD or MOST EPIC WOW STYLE PHAT LEWT ARMOR.

WO WO WO, you talking about allers? Hes been telling me to "get more ps" and that it is fair that he has a str build and plate armor due to his 60 ping when we duel,

meanwhile, my one hander bounces, stutter hits(stutter and does very little dammage), i wear tunic over mail and I have the range disadvantage- he also refuses to meet me in a native duel server as well


So be it, he shall be a useless sack of S@#$ once strategus comes

[Native_ATS]

WO WO WO, you talking about allers? Hes been telling me to "get more ps" and that it is fair that he has a str build and plate armor due to his 60 ping when we duel,

meanwhile, my one hander bounces, stutter hits(stutter and does very little dammage), i wear tunic over mail and has the range disadvantage- he also refuses to meet me in a native dual server as well


So be it, he shall be a useless sack of S@#$ once strategus comes

ya but unlike rhade you didnt say "let go to the duel sever" then get beat down
also strategus is a lie, just like the cake!

[Trippin]

Most video games aren't hard to get good at given enough time

I'd say that is somewhat true, actually. Mount & Blade has a high skill ceiling, but it's not too hard to reach it if you are very dedicated. When you compare this game with something like Starcraft, it's a joke indeed. However, realize that you grind in every game you play, even if there are no objective levels. You can't come into a game like Mount & Blade on your first day and expect to be the best player (although natural talent has a lot to do with it), you can only get better through experience.

[ManOfWar]

ya but unlike rhade you didnt say "let go to the duel sever" then get beat down
also strategus is a lie, just like the cake!

wait what, Im confused now. Also my grammar in that post was atrocious

[Diomedes]

Don't confuse time spent with skill, but you can say that time spent = gear = success.

I disagree entirely with " Most video games aren't hard to get good at given enough time." Some people have been playing since beta and are absolutely terrible while myself, Vanidar and kyky all were absolutely dominating servers within a few days of playing. Anyone can grind (thus the success of WoW), not anyone can rise above the rest on an even playing field.

Almost any game I spend over a 100 hours on I get fairly competent at.  I'm not saying some people don't have ingrained biases towards certain kinds of gameplay but really, a neurotypical given enough time almost always becomes good at this sort of thing.  Almost completely regardless of the gear they have most people with 100+ hours on one class or another are going to be good at it.  With the exception of KotOR I've played only RTT/RTS my entire life (and Clue).  Now, after more than 100 hours, I'm often a leader on the scoreboard.

But thatis beside the point.  I don't see the difference between the kind of tournament you described and a Native tournament.  The issue with having a Native tournament is that it's not a cRPG tournament.  cRPG includes crafting specific characters with specific styles of play.  If we're going to water down these choices and niches into the very gameplay we joined cRPG to escape then I want no part of it.  It's not about having uber|337 gear but having our gear.  It's not that players are nothing without it, it's just that we don't care to be.

[Rhade]

ya but unlike rhade you didnt say "let go to the duel sever" then get beat down
also strategus is a lie, just like the cake!

Getting pretty tired of hearing about this.

The guy showed up to duel in heavy armor vs me practically naked. I hit him 2x more than he hit me, but somehow he still "won." The only duels he won were when my swings glanced off of him (precisely why no heavy armor is never ever used in duel tournaments) and his swing failed to be interrupted.

I fought him completely naked, he lost 0-2.

He was supposed to come to BkS central to duel on Native so we could be on even footing, but he bitched out.

I really don't see how I got "beat down", tbh.

Either you're trolling or you're stupid, but most likely a mixture of both. It's funny because all you haters always love talking but none of you will ever duel me on even footing, ever, period, because you know you're going to get your shit pushed in.

Almost any game I spend over a 100 hours on I get fairly competent at.  I'm not saying some people don't have ingrained biases towards certain kinds of gameplay but really, a neurotypical given enough time almost always becomes good at this sort of thing.  Almost completely regardless of the gear they have most people with 100+ hours on one class or another are going to be good at it.  With the exception of KotOR I've played only RTT/RTS my entire life (and Clue).  Now, after more than 100 hours, I'm often a leader on the scoreboard.

But thatis beside the point.  I don't see the difference between the kind of tournament you described and a Native tournament.  The issue with having a Native tournament is that it's not a cRPG tournament.  cRPG includes crafting specific characters with specific styles of play.  If we're going to water down these choices and niches into the very gameplay we joined cRPG to escape then I want no part of it.  It's not about having uber|337 gear but having our gear.  It's not that players are nothing without it, it's just that we don't care to be.

There's a difference between "fairly competent" (being able to do ok in pub servers) and being top tier at something.
But you're talking a knowledge vs talent argument, really.

[Kalam]

Either you're trolling or you're stupid, but most likely a mixture of both. It's funny because all you haters always love talking but none of you will ever duel me on even footing, ever, period, because you know you're going to get your shit pushed in.

An equal footing duel would be one in Mount & Musket Russia (insert any other mod that both sides don't play regularly in), or a straight Level 1 cRPG peasant duel.

[Rhade]

An equal footing duel would be one in Mount & Musket Russia (insert any other mod that both sides don't play regularly in), or a straight Level 1 cRPG peasant duel.

An even footing duel is where both sides have the same gear, and characters.

Obviously it's never going to be "OMG 100% EVEN PINGS", but a native duel where both players have identical gear and characters is a lot more of a determination of who's better than cRPG duels where people have better armor/builds/characters/heirlooms.

Native and CRPG combat is identical, it's the same fucking thing, all cRPG does is add items/customization/builds. Combat is the same.

Surely you see this simple idea?

[Kalam]

An even footing duel is where both sides have the same gear, and characters.

Obviously it's never going to be "OMG 100% EVEN PINGS", but a native duel where both players have identical gear and characters is a lot more of a determination of who's better than cRPG duels where people have better armor/builds/characters/heirlooms.

Native and CRPG combat is identical, it's the same fucking thing, all cRPG does is add items/customization/builds. Combat is the same.

Surely you see this simple idea?

Surely you see mine?

Weapon speeds, lengths, and animations differ in Native and cRPG. These are large factors, and just knowing them is enough to win or lose a duel.

You know Native, and we know cRPG. How hard is that to get?