Author Topic: Heavy armor and Agility in Strategus  (Read 3281 times)

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Offline Turboflex

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Re: Heavy armor and Agility in Strategus
« Reply #30 on: July 31, 2012, 03:59:50 pm »
0
Get your armies to carry a selection of +3 agility armor for you.

Also, I suspect that 2000 modestly armored troops would beat 1000 plate troops and cost less.  Milanese costs 3x as much as a Heavy Kuyak but certainly isn't 3x as good.  If you really wanted to defend a castle, you should be able to see the attack coming and run out there and meet them in the field with a couple of medium armor armies just to thin them out.  Then agility builds would be a lot more useful, not only for having lighter armor to fight in but for being in an open field.

This

Spam out light-medium armor, give people decent armor piercing weps and attack plate armies in the open. Lots more cost effective.

Plate armies do best in cities and castles where there's no room for agility anyways, not so hot in open fields. In that attack on the village that Hospi got flag capped, I was using their plate and doing terrible, even a village is wide open compared to a castle and I was suffering cuz I had no speed at all to get in swings when a battle lines formed in the open village streets and squares, and lots of guys were using longer weapons.

Offline Smoothrich

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Re: Heavy armor and Agility in Strategus
« Reply #31 on: July 31, 2012, 04:09:52 pm »
+2
Power builds for obvious reasons have in many cases a significant advantage, but from my point of view this is not the key problem here and I don't want talk about balance.

I'm interested how come some factions have gold for such heavy armors for most of their units, since they have so small amount of caravans and shity short trade routes. Indeed amazingly!

My faction is very rich and has a perfectly organized economy, trade and logistics (cheating and exploiting with over 1000 CD keys), nevertheless this is not possible for us to produce such expensive equipment because in our case it is absolutely impossible to spend money so lavishly, but some factions, despite losing wars and  territory, still have tons of gold for best heavy equipment.

Price reduction does not explain anything, because I'm not talking about neutral locations and I have a concrete point of reference.

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DRZ freefarmed all Strat long + castle and city capping gold up until they invaded NA from what I saw, several months ago, and they had every army decked out in Lordly Druzhina Plate with top tier MW weapons and champion heavy horses for what seemed like at least 20,000 troops.  This was before the crafting price reduction.  Note I quit strat before they did that so I'm not sure how high the reduction was.

Hospitallers have free farmed Strat twice as long, but once we rallied clans to fight at them during the Red Vs Green war we all had pretty similar gear, they had generally higher tier armor and weapons then LLJK, Chaos, TKoV, etc but not that silly.  All we were able to afford in LLJK on our relatively close and infrequent trade runs were Lordly Cavalry Robes and whatever low/mid tier weapons we could scrounge up, with upkeep for 8k troops being a real bitch.  At that point in time due to our general inactivity and lack of organization a reduction in crafting prices certainly would've helped a bunch, but our core reason for generally low equipment values was an unoptimized economy.

Now it seems due to the horrible stagnation/infrequency of PvP combat in strat, and the high gold returns in capping AI castles and towns (often with very suspect means), plus whatever this crafting reduction was, Strategus is pretty much at a disgusting state.  Even medium sized clans, given enough "peace and prosperity" which is like 10 fucking months now probably except for 1-2 weeks of war in the middle there, are decked out in at least medium-heavy lordly armor.  Clans that have been especially productive have endless supplies of champion heavy cav and literally, lordly plate armor, + masterwork danishes, glaives, poleaxes, elite scimis, etc etc. 

On top of this, tons of players are Strength builds and this leads to people taking 8 or more hits on average to kill.  The absolute worst is seeing endless amounts of players that are in full plate, with probable 24/15 builds, riding champion heavy horses with mw heavy lances.  Once you dismount these guys, it turns into a 5vs1 of this idiot soaking nearly 10 or more hits, with tons of friendly fire from the mix of EU, NA, good and bad players, along with swarms of heavy cav continuously trying to lance you in the back.

Frankly, the recent Strategus battles I've participated in have been less then enjoyable.  To me, they are starting to embody everything that turns me off about the mod.  The effectiveness of strength builds, lordly heavy armor values, cav/melee hybrids, and the simply awful and stagnant politics of the clans that play Strategus.

Strat 2.0 never got full plate until the end of it, and that was only because of the hilarious bug where upkeep made you gain gold and all that other nonsense.  On top of that, most clans seemed more interested in participating, war was abundant, EU and NA wasn't divided, and buying/outfitting armies wasn't some colossal pain in the ass.  Strat 3.0's early game was dominated by MW Rus Bows 1 shotting people in peasant gear, now it appears to be dominated by full plate and endless heavy cav, all +3, endlessly griefing me by taking so long to kill and slaughtering my teammates. 

Though the lack of cav awareness I see in all of these battles isn't gear related, just skill and it's depressing : \  Probably 1/4 of the deaths on my team it seems have been teammates walking from spawn to battle and being couched from behind, the side, sometimes even directly ahead, and it makes me rage a bit.  Holy shit just swivel around with your "look" key whenever you feel exposed and you will turn what is nonstop ticket drain from couches to big jukes or maybe even big turnarounds on the scrub cav player by killing him and/or horse.  Get some awareness!

Anyways, just want to point out that the flaws of Strat 3.0 are so glaring its kind of painful, and respect for all the clan leaders who have put up with the BS to get to this point in the game, and its probably a good feeling to be commanding armies so decked out in gear.  Just hoping the devs go forward soon (or at least reveal/beta test the changes) they have in mind for next strat to get some actual feedback from the community and try to make it the best game they can.
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Offline Elindor

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Re: Heavy armor and Agility in Strategus
« Reply #32 on: July 31, 2012, 04:59:17 pm »
0
Miley im pretty sure is BALANCED build, like me (21/21 @ lvl 32)

Balanced builds can do ok in this game, but I would agree that the pros/cons of going heavy STR build are way better than the pros/cons of going heavy AGI build....and more and more people are heavy STR and not even balanced anymore.
The coupling of STR and HP is one problem imho.

I think if the new WPF curve that chadz mentioned a) speeds up high WM/WPF users a bit, and b) slows down LOW WM/WPF users a bit....it will help the current situation.

----

As for strat and plate everywhere...yeah its pretty unrealistic and not great for gameplay necessarily.

Not sure the answer....maybe more expensive again? or maybe there is just a soft cap?  after so many sets it gets more expensive...I dont know .
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Offline CrazyCracka420

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Re: Heavy armor and Agility in Strategus
« Reply #33 on: July 31, 2012, 05:54:59 pm »
0
It's a siege.  DRZ has been using heavy armor since they started taking AI cities.  This is why strat needs a wipe.  Crafting is like 1/4 of what it was to begin with, and people are still benefiting from when they had inactive c-rpg players crafting/recruiting in strategus.  Now that you can't do that any more, they should wipe strat.

However, heavy armor makes sense in sieges, you're in close quarters where agility isn't a huge concern.  In open field battles plate isn't as useful.  You should be expecting any attacking siege armies to be heavily armored, and should probably have weapons that can fight in close quarters, and do blunt/knockdown damage (ideally) or pierce.
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Offline Penitent

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Re: Heavy armor and Agility in Strategus
« Reply #34 on: July 31, 2012, 05:57:32 pm »
+1
Meh, doesn't bother me.  I'm an agi build this gen and I wear heavy armor.  It lets me move around faster than those who are str builds in heavy armor.

I think its find and I've having fun. :)

Offline SeQuel

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Re: Heavy armor and Agility in Strategus
« Reply #35 on: July 31, 2012, 07:49:34 pm »
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Meh, doesn't bother me.  I'm an agi build this gen and I wear heavy armor.  It lets me move around faster than those who are str builds in heavy armor.

I think its find and I've having fun. :)

Well of course you still move faster than them in plate but again here is the difference.

In battle or when you wear light armor and you got 8 athletics you can actually strafe around people faster than they can turn most of the time since you're so quick. You can actually get around peoples blocks and hit them from the side if you're quick enough. However in plate you get slowed down quite a fair bit, so do they, but the difference is that they DON'T need to move quick. If you're still getting side hits on enemies white in full plate with the speed nerf then the enemy is just bad. Simple as that.

Offline Goretooth

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Re: Heavy armor and Agility in Strategus
« Reply #36 on: July 31, 2012, 09:38:21 pm »
0
lol i'm a str build? i better tell my 7 athletics to slow down.
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Offline SeQuel

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Re: Heavy armor and Agility in Strategus
« Reply #37 on: July 31, 2012, 09:41:44 pm »
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lol i'm a str build? i better tell my 7 athletics to slow down.

I don't even know how to respond to this. What are you even talking about?

This was a discussion in case you forgot.

Offline oprah_winfrey

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Re: Heavy armor and Agility in Strategus
« Reply #38 on: July 31, 2012, 09:43:13 pm »
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I don't even know how to respond to this. What are you even talking about?

This was a discussion in case you forgot.

Pretty sure goretooth's resposne was in regards to:

Quote
My KD wasn't as high as some of the str build guys like Goretooth or some of the shielders

Offline SeQuel

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Re: Heavy armor and Agility in Strategus
« Reply #39 on: July 31, 2012, 09:44:33 pm »
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Ah, gotcha. Quotes are magical thing.

Offline Goretooth

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Re: Heavy armor and Agility in Strategus
« Reply #40 on: July 31, 2012, 09:45:33 pm »
+4
Ah, gotcha. Quotes are magical thing.
So is reading the thread your posting in.
Why do str vs agi threads? use them both not bash each other. The key to a good build is balance.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2012, 09:49:56 pm by Goretooth »
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Offline TugBoat

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Re: Heavy armor and Agility in Strategus
« Reply #41 on: July 31, 2012, 10:42:53 pm »
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So is reading the thread your posting in.
Why do str vs agi threads? use them both not bash each other. The key to a good build is balance.

7 athletics? D: I don't even. What build are you?

Offline Elindor

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Re: Heavy armor and Agility in Strategus
« Reply #42 on: July 31, 2012, 11:36:28 pm »
-1
7 athletics? D: I don't even. What build are you?

My favorite thing about the KUTT guys is that they act like they don't even KNOW agility exists  :mrgreen:
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Offline TugBoat

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Re: Heavy armor and Agility in Strategus
« Reply #43 on: July 31, 2012, 11:39:22 pm »
-1
My favorite thing about the KUTT guys is that they act like they don't even KNOW agility exists  :mrgreen:

I'm an agi build and I'll kick your arse. :)

Offline Elindor

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Re: Heavy armor and Agility in Strategus
« Reply #44 on: July 31, 2012, 11:44:08 pm »
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I'm an agi build and I'll kick your arse. :)

How come so much surprise about 7 Athletics then?
And Im balanced (which most people consider Agi build cause they're all strength whoooarreessszz) :)

Now Tug lets not go -1'ing each other...
« Last Edit: July 31, 2012, 11:55:54 pm by Elindor »
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