Heavy armor and Agility in Strategus

[SeQuel]

Creating this topic mainly to have a discussion on how people feel about Heavy Armor and Agility.

Recently I've been trying an Agility build in Battle, I enjoy it due to the maneuverability of it and being able to pump more WPF so I can use crossbows. However when it comes to Strategus I absolutely hate it.

Here is why

- Agility is a lot about maneuverability but in Strategus at it's current state everyone and their mother has plate armor. Lets take the example of todays TKoV fight against Hospitallers. My current build is 15/24 so I have only 5 power strike. Now 5 power strike BARELY gets through plate and if it doesn't glance it does little damage. This requires me to hit an opponent minimum 3 times if using a morning star or 4-5 with a sword assuming it's someone who has pumped STR. Meanwhile any STR opponents can easily 1 shot me since I don't pump Iron Flesh. Now you could argue well you're agility use your maneuverability expect the fact that MOST armies don't even have light armor since Strategus COMPLETELY REVOLVES AROUND HEAVY ARMOR late game.

Using heavy armor on a agility hinders me and what agility is all about. This only promotes STR crutchers and this this point in strategus Agility is useless. I'm not quite sure how you could balance this since Heavy Armor is suppose to be late game but since Strategus is such a big deal/thing this can scare of people who enjoy Agility because they want to do good in Strategus. One of my thoughts were to limit the amount of heavy armor you could bring to a battle.

I would love to hear what other agility players think of how Strategus is for them. For me it's using heavy armor so I can survive the arrows and sometimes survive 2 hits from a STR user but because of this it completely ruins my Athletics due to having to wear the heavy armor. I shouldn't have to go STR build in order to compete.

TL;DR - Read it if you're interested if you're to busy come back to it later, if not interested then this thread isn't for you.

[Visconti]

I dont think everyone is supposed to be in full plate, but since chadz reduced all the item prices so late into strat, money is almost worthless and everyone is in full plate. Makes me miss Strat 2.0, or even mid strat 3.0 fights ( the few that happened) back when everyone was in heraldic chainmail, and light infantry was still viable. Back when we fought alongside the FCC in strat 2.0, it seems we had alot more light infantry, and it worked incredibly well. Now, not so much.

[Jarlek]

Yup.

After the crying of equipment prices; heavy armour is now the standard infantry gear.

I find that sad.

[Malaclypse]

Strategus COMPLETELY REVOLVES AROUND HEAVY ARMOR late game.

Yeah man. I think that even late game, Plate Armor should be pretty rare, with Leather based armors being the most witnessed on the battlefield. You could probably make a realism argument here, too, if you wanted; armies outfitted with leather would be less expensive, easier to produce in a decent amount of time and easier as an armor to carry on the march. Of course in that same argument Chain would be more expensive and take longer to make than plate. In either case, for balance in the game, Chain and Leather really should be the most witnessed on the field.

That fact is that agility needs a lot of love, too. Strength gets damage, rad, it should get damage. Agility gets mobility, that's also a good fit. But strength also gets endurance, extra health and the ability to wear greater armor. This really shouldn't be the case, unless agility is also going to get either an endurance or damage benefit out of it.

Perhaps the new WPF curve and the way Weapon Master will work will allow prof high enough to more drastically alter damage, which would help to better balance Strength and Agi. Agility gets mobility passively and through Athletics with most damage through WM; Strength gets damage through PS with protection through IF and passively. That could work nicely.

15/27 was a really fun build in regular play, but in Strategus it just wasn't viable against a horde of plate, even with picks or maces. 18/24 may not be much better, but here's hoping. In most fights I also have to consistently go above the armor I feel comfortable wearing with athletics. It's not especially fun. My only major grievance with this module is the armor levels, and I know a lot of the dudes who are still just playing Native or other mods feel the same way. The real disparity between strength and agility only comes with heavy armor.

[Nightingale]

I completely agree.... 2,000 man armies in full plate should cost alot more than what it does cost.

[Tears of Destiny]

To be fair, Plate will pop up when factions go for long times without severe conflict. Regardless, Agility does need a lot of love.

[Tayzzer]

Not knowing exactly how different armor attributes are assigned I have no idea if this is possible, but at least for me the armor progression has always been too linear for me. Different armor types were made to protect the wearer from different types of attacks, ex slash, thrust, ranged ect. I wont dispute the fact that the medieval tank wearing essentially all the types layered over one another shoulder take a beating but perhaps making the progression of armor less about cloth to leather to chain to plate could allow other builds to still receive special resistances. I'm thinking along the lines of partial plate were it may just be chest, with bracers or some variation. With some thing like it would have larger gaps thus less body armor but allow for more mobility and naturally be lighter and could give you something like more glances.

[SeQuel]

Also if anyone "-" my post I'm fine with that but I'd prefer you give a reason why.

*Cough* Gricks *Cough*

[Lordark]

To be fair, Plate will pop up when factions go for long times without severe conflict. Regardless, Agility does need a lot of love.

Tears how are you so fucking wise Man??

[Digglez]

http://forum.meleegaming.com/suggestions-corner/repair-castles-after-sieges/msg563468/#msg563468

[TugBoat]

I have an agility 2h build with not a lot of iron flesh. I wore plate for the start of the battle, and then used the heraldic later and I still had positive KD at the end. Granted, my KD has been less consistent from when I was 27/12 or 30/9 before, but you can still do well with agi heavy builds. look at Miley, sure Miley is level 35 or near to it, but they still are very agi heavy and do well in strat

[Digglez]

I have an agility 2h build with not a lot of iron flesh. I wore plate for the start of the battle, and then used the heraldic later and I still had positive KD at the end. Granted, my KD has been less consistent from when I was 27/12 or 30/9 before, but you can still do well with agi heavy builds. look at Miley, sure Miley is level 35 or near to it, but they still are very agi heavy and do well in strat

miley is not an agi build

[SeQuel]

Yah, I don't think Miley is an Agility build but I may be wrong.

[HardRice]

Yah, I don't think Miley is an Agility build but I may be wrong.

Pretty sure miley is some sort of variation of 18/21 at level 35.

[Gricks]

People are fast in heavy armor as agi specs. Heavy armor with agi is a very good build. I definitely don't think it is useless. And I definitely don't think it promotes str crutchers as much as you imply. I think the STR crutchers comes from the imbalance of str vs agi more so than it does because of plate in strat. I do agree that plate shouldn't be as prevalent in strat, but not because it hinders agi builds like you say.