A catchy title to start a debate.

[SirCymro_Crusader]

Which is exactly what I said in my first post. Guess it got lost in translation, after the the part that reads "Bjord".

Native is gay. Anyone who plays it clings to some elitistic fantasy. Duel is okay in some aspects, but way too spammy and exploity(in lack of a better word).

Anyway, I am just an oldmy old friend who clings to old cRPG because melee was fun. But I doubt I'd get the same pleasure killing people without the need to keep aware of archers, adds a stress factor which makes me perform better. And die more often...

Natives too fast paced with 360 degree spinny shielders who one hit everything, with archers who pew pew and QQ and kill in one shot

[Bjord]

Getting out of the closet is the first step on the path of salvation. Good going lad, keep it up, walk towards the light !

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After all, you are my role model.

[Gnjus]

After all, you are my role model.

Indeed, I used to be a delicate little flower myself but then i grew stronger:

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Warning: Heavy Spoiler Needed:

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http://www.medolino.com/

[Miwiw]

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I see. You're the reason for the adult content on the forums!

[Macropus]

I've read the whole topic and now im like this:

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PS: actually I think the game is pretty balanced right now, but nevermind, im newmy old friend and noob and also don't care about all this balance things because I think devs will do everything perfect anyway.

[Gnjus]

Don't tell me that people are starting to take Gnjus' jabs seriously now, are they?

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If you don't have anything useful to add into discussion then either troll it hard or just leave it.

*Gnjus, chapter 2, verse 1

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Works like a charm for me. 

[Adamar]

Im convinced that the reason most archers go for light armor is the simple fact that weight reduces your accuracy. Fix that and melee archers become more viable than kiters. Simply taking away an archer's ability to run like any other character is retarded.

[Bjord]

No, they should not become tanks who can fire from afar. No other class runs like archers, they don't have to because they can fight back. Give archers decent 0 slot weapons that make more damage and they too will fight back.

[Kafein]

tl;dr Everything has a counter, figure it out.

A game is for fun.

If "figuring it out" is not to the taste of the player, the game needs betterment. It's not the other way around.

[Bjord]

A game is for fun.

If "figuring it out" is not to the taste of the player, the game needs betterment. It's not the other way around.

My thoughts exactly.

[Kafein]

My thoughts exactly.

However, making the game more fun for one class very often makes it less for another, so it's a matter of balance.

I think the idea of not changing the game because things are globally fine and class strengths can be countered is fallacious though. What matters is what happens, and what is a better game (read : more enjoyable for a greater variety of players while following the ideas and spirit of the developpers). cRPG is not perfect and never will be. Not changing it would be the error.

[Jarlek]

Im convinced that the reason most archers go for light armor is the simple fact that weight reduces your accuracy. Fix that and melee archers become more viable than kiters. Simply taking away an archer's ability to run like any other character is retarded.

You can wear Light/mediumish armour and still have good accuracy.

Armor weight modified proficiency = base proficiency * (1 - 0.01 * effective armor weight)
Effective armor weight = 3*head armor weight + body armor weight + leg armor weight + 2*hand armor weight - 7

So with 7 effective armour weight you get no accuracy penalty what so ever, yet most archers go around with armour way beneath that. Why? So they can run faster.


Source

[Adamar]

No, they should not become tanks who can fire from afar. No other class runs like archers, they don't have to because they can fight back. Give archers decent 0 slot weapons that make more damage and they too will fight back.

Exept dieing with 1 hit doesn't encourage going melee. With the weight of armor archers wouldn't be able to kite properly, that's the trade off. A dedicated melee charater should still have little trouble dispatching an armoured archer, unless the meleer had no skill. What I propose is that archers actually look like they did and not kite.

You can wear Light/mediumish armour and still have good accuracy. So with 7 effective armour weight you get no accuracy penalty what so ever, yet most archers go around with armour way beneath that. Why? So they can run faster.

No, archers dont run away for pleasure. The fact that archers have sligtly more accuracy with light armor is reason enought to go for it. couple that with retarded melee capability and we have kiting. So, like I've explained before, armor is the way to fix it.

[Bjord]

However, making the game more fun for one class very often makes it less for another, so it's a matter of balance.

I think the idea of not changing the game because things are globally fine and class strengths can be countered is fallacious though. What matters is what happens, and what is a better game (read : more enjoyable for a greater variety of players while following the ideas and spirit of the developpers). cRPG is not perfect and never will be. Not changing it would be the error.

If aimed at me, I'm curious as to when and with what words I said that I don't want change.

If meant as a general statement, I agree. Even when I say "everything's fine" everything is far from fine. It's just a relative statement, meaning "at the moment the game balance is still slightly bad but waiting for tweak". Compare cRPG to Mercenaries and we have an almost perfect game. Thankfully, the devs have greater ambition than that piece of shit mod with disgusting community.

[Tears of Destiny]

I'm still amused that so many people complained that Archers could melee and wanted it took away, and now they want it back as archers are now running. Give it 6 months or a year after "melee archer" becomes viable again, and the cries of nerf will be back to take it away the instant anyone becomes good at it.

I used to melee and not run away before the slot nerf, actually. Now I use a +3 stick because why the hell not, given the current state of things.