Shields overhaul

[Molly]

You dont play a shielder, you dont realize how often people phase thru our models and getting hiltslashed when our shield UP, when FORCEFIELD used to prevent stuff like that.  In a spot you used to be able to hold with 2-3 shielders to hold a chokepoint you need 5-6 players all teamhitting each other and getting their weapons stuck on each other because they're crammed in like sardines.  Removing the forcefield caused more problems than it fixed, and diminishes the contributions of an entire class/role.

Play shielder for a month and come post back on this thread that things are ok.  None of you will do it, because its buggy broken shit atm.

You're talking about two different things here.
Shine was like "Don't change them in their gameplay!" and you're like "They need a re-buff!"
OP is suggesting changes to gameplay-mechanics and those aren't needed. +1 Shine
Glitching and removed Forcefield are bad things and should be worked on. +1 Digglez

You're both right. You're both talking about different things tho... 

[Leshma]

Shields would become pretty useless against holds and multiple opponents that way. Sure, you can tap block a single person if they're extremely predictable, but you need to hold your block to maneuver around more than one person. You may think that's fine, but that'll just make it so it's easier to just manual block against multiple enemies, because if you had a shield, it will just break quickly and you will get hit/killed because of the stun when it breaks.

Lowering the shield weight that low may make shields susceptible to being stunned much more often, so it is both a blessing and a curse. Shield speeds would need to go up dramatically to have some form of reliability.

Arrows already do little damage to shields

Edit: Tap block will also need to be better than current blocking to begin with. High shield skill players already take little damage to their shield, so this will just straight out nerf them. It will also be unreasonable to make shielders get a hit in any faster than they currently do, like tap block stunning the opponent longer.

Fighting against multiple oponents will become a lot harder. But fighting one enemy will be easier as well.

In cRPG being shielder means you're good at fighting multiple enemies. But that doesn't make sense, I mean fighting multiple enemies doesn't make sense at all. I'm pretty sure shielders weren't meant to aggro five or more enemy fighters, then either backpedal or spin, that way forcing the enemy to teamkill themselves.

Makes perfect sense in cRPG because it was always like that (not just for shielders) but it's quite silly actually.

You're right, faster and lighter shield will get stunned more often and people will crush trough them a lot. But I've also suggested that bigger shields should be heavier which means that they will be like walls.

And arrows do solid damage to my shield, which is cheap and has just 174 HP. It also had 17 body armor which is solid and I have 4 shield skill. Despite that, all it takes are 5-6 arrows from loomed archers and my shield is history.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Forcefield just needs to be removed, stupid shits who can't even see where the arrow is being aimed at and rotate their block accordingly deserve to get headshot.

[Leshma]

Only thing I"ll agree is the forcefield needs to come back.  So many bullshit hits and people teleporting thru me its so fucking dumb and broken.
One way might be to increase the AGI requirement per point in shield.  This would also get rid of the indestructible shield dilemma.
But they need to balance this so there is an actual incentive or point to using the bigger/heavier shields besides just more HP.  The kite shields were far too good in melee before the nerf.


Taking more damage because you've been holding your shield up is pretty stupid.  You dont go PUNCHING your shield at incoming attacks unless you want your hand & arm broken.  You keep shield up away from your body so you've got some 'give' to absorb blows.

It's pretty obvious that you're playing shielder for a long time, already came up with a lot better idea than myself.

Different AGI req per shield skill is excellent idea.

One shield point per 6 AGI just like HA skill works right now can fix many problem without having to change many shield stats like I suggested.

But some stats changes have to be done in that case, like splitting shields in four categories:

1 Shield skill =   6 AGI - all shields up to Brown Lion shield
2 Shield skill = 12 AGI - all shields up to Board Shield
3 Shield skill = 18 AGI - all shields up to Heavy Board Shield
4 Shield skill = 24 AGI - all shields (Plate Covered Round Shield should have 4 Shield skill req)

One shield skill should give double amount of damage reductions per level in this case = 14% per shield skill level. That means you'll need 45 AGI build in order to make indestructible shield, but you won't have enough skill points on level 30.

[Leshma]

I think leshma just want backpedal all shielders and destroy their shields with some greatsword, and ofc she want block 1000 arrows wth some crap shield.
That's the point.
And i think shields dont need any changes.

Agor, I'm not playing much on my main. But whenever I do, I feel like demigod.

If I played on my main I wouldn't post anything in here because everything is "perfectly balanced" against my 2H agi build

[Molly]

I dunno... I don't like the idea of high Agi instead of high Str for a really heavy shield. Just sounds wrong.

I don't have a better idea tho. Just saying that it somehow feels wrong...

[MrShine]

You dont play a shielder, you dont realize how often people phase thru our models and getting hiltslashed when our shield UP, when FORCEFIELD used to prevent stuff like that.  In a spot you used to be able to hold with 2-3 shielders to hold a chokepoint you need 5-6 players all teamhitting each other and getting their weapons stuck on each other because they're crammed in like sardines.  Removing the forcefield caused more problems than it fixed, and diminishes the contributions of an entire class/role.

Play shielder for a month and come post back on this thread that things are ok.  None of you will do it, because its buggy broken shit atm.

uhhh I played shielder for like 6+ gens, most recently 2 gens ago.  Yes occasionally someone that is practically inside you can pull off a swing past your shield, but if you have good positioning it's very rare (I can probably count on 1 hand the # of times it happened to me).

I find shielders just as effective as they ever were for breaking up formations and causing chaos among ranks.

So no I don't think more forcefield changes need to be made.

[Turboflex]

Fighting against multiple oponents will become a lot harder. But fighting one enemy will be easier as well.

In cRPG being shielder means you're good at fighting multiple enemies. But that doesn't make sense, I mean fighting multiple enemies doesn't make sense at all. I'm pretty sure shielders weren't meant to aggro five or more enemy fighters, then either backpedal or spin, that way forcing the enemy to teamkill themselves.

Makes perfect sense in cRPG because it was always like that (not just for shielders) but it's quite silly actually.

It's not silly it's a core basic for Warband class balance.

2v1 vs non-shielder: If the attackers have half a brain they attack at same time with different directional swings, single guy can only parry one direction. He starts taking hits.

2v1 vs shielder: Directional attacks don't matter. Shielder can block any direction and is able to focus more counter attacking than desperate parries.

In exchange for this advantage vs multiple opponents (plus protection from ranged), 1h weps are weaker and shielders get a speed penalty from their extra gear. You are proposing to obliterate this aspect of shielding and just turn them into duelists, completely & radically change the class.

Why? I dunno? Cuz you dislike them personally even though you have never played one seriously. Terrible. Did you get beat by a shielder and make this as a ragepost?

If there's a problem with shielders who "turtle", aka are super defensive and have nearly indestructable shields, then just cap shield skill at 5 and maybe nerf some of the 2 slot shields. A lot easier than radically changing a class. People who do that are just newbies anyways. From my observations on NA at at least, basically none of the best shielders use 2 slot shields, and none have more than 5 shield skill, and all of them play very offensively and walk away victorious from 1v2 not by "turtling" for minutes but by aggressively timing their attacks into openings.

[oprah_winfrey]

If there's a problem with shielders who "turtle", aka are super defensive and have nearly indestructable shields, then just cap shield skill at 5 and maybe nerf some of the 2 slot shields. A lot easier than radically changing a class. People who do that are just newbies anyways. From my observations on NA at at least, basically none of the best shielders use 2 slot shields, and none have more than 5 shield skill, and all of them play very offensively and walk away victorious from 1v2 not by "turtling" for minutes but by aggressively timing their attacks into openings.

Dan

[Leshma]

Why? I dunno? Cuz you dislike them personally even though you have never played one seriously. Terrible. Did you get beat by a shielder and make this as a ragepost?

I'm currently playing as shielder.

There aren't many shielders on EU server that can beat me (on my 2H main) easily if I have decent armor on me.

I want to make shielders better against twohanders and polearms.

[Turboflex]

Doesn't Dan use elite cav shield (since he has riding skill?)?

Maybe that guy on Fallen who wears mongol armor and is pretty good with the scimitar and the metal shield (I think the 2 slot one).

But otherwise go look at most top shielders very few go heavy shield and more than 5 skill.

[oprah_winfrey]

Doesn't Dan use elite cav shield (since he has riding skill?)?

Maybe that guy on Fallen who wears mongol armor and is pretty good with the scimitar and the metal shield (I think the 2 slot one).

But otherwise go look at most top shielders very few go heavy shield and more than 5 skill.

He uses the huscarl if he doesn't spawn on his horse, and he has 6 shield last I checked.

[Digglez]

uhhh I played shielder for like 6+ gens, most recently 2 gens ago.  Yes occasionally someone that is practically inside you can pull off a swing past your shield, but if you have good positioning it's very rare (I can probably count on 1 hand the # of times it happened to me).

I find shielders just as effective as they ever were for breaking up formations and causing chaos among ranks.

So no I don't think more forcefield changes need to be made.

ANd how many of these gens were done AFTER October 2011?  I highly doubt more than 1 gen....prob less than 2 weeks play for you as played after 2.41 shield nerf patch.  And the hiltslashes thru the shield arent nearly as common and someone phasing thru your model/shield and hitting you from behind.  How about arrows going right thru the shield model in certain shield 'weakspots'?
Again, you'd know these things if you had a clue what you were talking about, but you dont since you're not a shielder.  Not everyone should be expected to use the pro mrshine 24+ AGI whore builds to avoid 2h heroes getting point blank on them. 

Shields have been broken for getting close to a year now.  The reason they arent fixed is less than a handful of high profile players use them on a regular basis (San)

[Turboflex]

I'm currently playing as shielder.

There aren't many shielders on EU server that can beat me (on my 2H main) easily if I have decent armor on me.

I want to make shielders better against twohanders and polearms.

What does a shield have to do with beating a 2h/pole? If you are good at holding/feinting/combos/chambers you will land hits, and probably win if you do it better than your opponent. If he's better and can outfight you, he'll probably win.

[Leshma]

My first suggestion is what I think should be done about shields. You're here to point out where I'm making mistakes and I'm very grateful on that.

This isn't "Leshma wants to nerf shielders" topic.

This is "shields are broken and should be fixed somehow" topic.