Shields overhaul

[Leshma]

Hi there, long time no see

As you can see this thread is about shields. Why?

Because I think that shields are acting strange, not OP not too much UP but they feel wrong.

Turtles won't like these changes but I think they should be done:

1) Change shield stats

Smaller shields like knightly heater, kite and smaller round shields are too heavy, they should be somewhere between 3 and 4 weight.

Big ass shields like huscarl which are reinfornced with steel should be heavier, like 4 times heavier than smaller wooden shields.

Metal shields should also be heavier, except bucklers.

Decrease number of hit points shields have, a lot.

2) Bring back old force field values when shield is used on foot.

Currently, so many shit is going through shields it's not funny anymore. I blame new forcefield values (new = post upkeepo patch).

3) Now comes the sweetest part, something cmp has mentioned before

Implement new feature, where the longer you hold shield up the more damage you take, but if you block just in time with enemy swing (somewhat like chambering) your shield take small amount of damage.

4) Arrows should deal little to no damage to all shields, no matter how much shield skill player has

Why I am suggesting these changes?

Because, at the moment shielders aren't filling their true role. With my changes they will be mobile, won't fear ranged and will be able to rival 2h/poles if they know how to play.

I don't think that one handed weapons are that weak, whenever I put my shield on back, I transform into killing machine just like when I use 2H/pole weapons. Shields are the problem, sure is easier to block with a shield than manual blocking but when you become decent with manual blocking, shield blocking becomes worse choice. That should be changed.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

I say just remove shield forcefields entirely and make shield skill have no effect on shield field, give them values fitting their size and don't add a feature that makes aiming your block against arrows easier, that's like giving 2hs autoblock once they get beyond 200 wpf.
I like the thing you (CMP) suggested regarding shields taking less damage if they don't just hold block, but I say, also add such a feature for manual blocking, adding a (longer) weapon stun if you hold block for to long, tabbing dem buttons ftw.

[Abay]

I think shields are ok    but maybe something new can be added. Good ideas anyway

[San]

Shields would become pretty useless against holds and multiple opponents that way. Sure, you can tap block a single person if they're extremely predictable, but you need to hold your block to maneuver around more than one person. You may think that's fine, but that'll just make it so it's easier to just manual block against multiple enemies, because if you had a shield, it will just break quickly and you will get hit/killed because of the stun when it breaks.

Lowering the shield weight that low may make shields susceptible to being stunned much more often, so it is both a blessing and a curse. Shield speeds would need to go up dramatically to have some form of reliability.

Arrows already do little damage to shields

Edit: Tap block will also need to be better than current blocking to begin with. High shield skill players already take little damage to their shield, so this will just straight out nerf them. It will also be unreasonable to make shielders get a hit in any faster than they currently do, like tap block stunning the opponent longer.

[Digglez]

Only thing I"ll agree is the forcefield needs to come back.  So many bullshit hits and people teleporting thru me its so fucking dumb and broken.
One way might be to increase the AGI requirement per point in shield.  This would also get rid of the indestructible shield dilemma.
But they need to balance this so there is an actual incentive or point to using the bigger/heavier shields besides just more HP.  The kite shields were far too good in melee before the nerf.


Taking more damage because you've been holding your shield up is pretty stupid.  You dont go PUNCHING your shield at incoming attacks unless you want your hand & arm broken.  You keep shield up away from your body so you've got some 'give' to absorb blows.

[San]

Just fix models going through shields held up. I abuse this myself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AIWodyQvq4

[Dasty]

I wouldn't take any HP from the shields. But I don't think shield skill should effect anything but speed on shields. I agree with making higher end shields heavier. Wood is not a light material and with the thickness of some of the shields, you can end up with one hell of a left arm by using them.

[MrShine]

The 'snap block' change suggested is bad, because holds already do more damage against shields, so it would just be a double-whammy.  As mentioned the 'snap block' fails a lot if you're dealing with holds or someone feinting alot, esp since some shields have a lot of delay so the snap wouldn't even work.

Honestly I don't think shields need much in the way of changing right now.

[rustyspoon]

I would just like to see more shield diversity. As it stands, those no reason to take any but a handful of shields.

I would like to see most shields weaker against shield breakers. I would like to see some shields more resistant to shield breakers. Those that become more resistant get their speed dropped dramatically.

Different shields should serve different purposes. Some could be used for holding areas and pushing. Others used for straight combat. Give me diversity, damnit!

[Zanze]

Why would you want a shielder to be more mobile? The point behind them is to pick a spot and say "Thou shall not pass," not "I'm a ballerina with a wooden block on my hand!"

[Turboflex]

All these suggestions are pretty bad, and mostly just nerfs, especially as San mentioned ability to fight vs multiple opponents.

Do you even play shielder or is this just a ragepost? I noticed your derogatory use of the word "turtles"

[Dasty]

I like Rusty's suggestion. Could be good for all weapon types. There is some specialization in other weapon forms but I would really like some more variety on the field. 

[Konrax]

I think it would be great to get the better block field back, however I still think shield speed doesn't really matter much.

Maybe make the slowest shields even slower, then scale the rest. That way shield speed would be worth something, and thus would add some more diversity.

[Digglez]

Honestly I don't think shields need much in the way of changing right now.

You dont play a shielder, you dont realize how often people phase thru our models and getting hiltslashed when our shield UP, when FORCEFIELD used to prevent stuff like that.  In a spot you used to be able to hold with 2-3 shielders to hold a chokepoint you need 5-6 players all teamhitting each other and getting their weapons stuck on each other because they're crammed in like sardines.  Removing the forcefield caused more problems than it fixed, and diminishes the contributions of an entire class/role.

Play shielder for a month and come post back on this thread that things are ok.  None of you will do it, because its buggy broken shit atm.

[Old_Sir_Agor]

I think leshma just want backpedal all shielders and destroy their shields with some greatsword, and ofc she want block 1000 arrows wth some crap shield.
That's the point.
And i think shields dont need any changes.