idiotic NA ban

[Zisa]

review of events:
Goretooth spawn attacks and wounds me. Runs. I type "idiot". kick. Obviously he knew who the idiot was.
I return, question this decision and greatly offend the institution of admin by telling him to 'take a pill'.
ban
I post the 'die Goretooth' thread.
Goretooth follows me to seige server and bans me there, continuing the charade.
April Fools!
It ends with devilize locking the thread and sending me some horseshit via pm.
....
Since there is no NA abooze section, I may as well post it here. Perhaps it will survive or get locked, let us see.

What kind of n00b swings in spawn team wounding? It is WELL KNOWN that there is always a risk of team wounding by doing such, to deny this is rediculous. It is also a warnable / klickable / banable offense, but apparantly calling out such douchebaggery with 'IDIOT' is far far more severe a hindrance to the team and is not to be tolerated.

What is interesting is the shitstorm caused by the thread and the apparent inability to do anything but lock it and hope to sweep it under the rug. I was playing other games while this ATS/Hospitaller hate was building and bottling up, including some flak from what I considered to be easy going, laid back and level headed players.

Though I have witnessed and been subjected to pretty well since week one of my cRPG career, unwarranted bitterness from players I had previously thought were above such nonsense; It is a contagious trend to whine about a playstyle or 'class' rather then use brain and attempt to overcome an opponent, and certain people equate forum posts with in game behaviour and remain deeply offended by any perceived slight or disagreement. Some of these people are more then happy to 'pile on', after lurking for some time just waiting for the right moment to 'surprise' and revel in their great cleverness. It's the internet! But these are not the only people who obviously have grave concerns about your administration. Hey if you want to blame me for the draconian admin style you will, but you have more tools now and less of an excuse.

I seriously wonder what you did when the 'YOU SUCK' message came up in Unreal Tournament; I am guessing GTX. I thought M&B was a combat game, not 'Barbie's non sexual non threatening sleep over'.

Your refusal to man up and admit a fault is a fatal flaw, the fact that you refuse to see it is the ONLY reason I keep trying to hammer it into your head.

[IG_Saint]

I agree with you on the goretooth incident, but honestly what do you expect this thread to achieve? It's just going to be more ATS flaming you and random people defending you.

[Zisa]

I expect to peel the scab off of a festering wound so it can heal in the open air.

[Nindur]

What is your suggestion to solve all the problems?

[MrShine]

Random person reporting for duty.

I haven't been around long, but I've never had any negative in-game experience playing with/against Zisa as far as player conduct goes. 

If events transpired the way Zisa describes them a ban seems pretty excessive, even a kick if it wasn't more than 'idiot' in response to being team wounded.  I've seen far worse from people who scream bloody murder if they get team damaged.

Worth it to make a stand here and risk something worse than ban?  Probably not.  Still, as a player I shouldn't have to tread lightly around admin players and treat them reverently to avoid "their wrath".  I'm sure that Goretooth has to deal with exponentially more shit than most admins, but it looks like the banhammer came down way too quickly in this case.

There's nothing wrong with acknowledging a mistake and fixing it.  I know admins want to (and should) stay consistent and avoid arguing amongst themselves in front of the playerbase, but people will respect it if you admit reversal instead of clinging to an obviously unjust banning.

[Ecko]

I recommended you being unbanned. I take it back. Thanks for wasting my time. I was hoping you would handle it maturely but i guess the point isn't getting across.

[Sphinxer]

I agree with you on the goretooth incident, but honestly what do you expect this thread to achieve? It's just going to be more ATS flaming you and random people defending you.

Exactly. Sorry Zisa. It's fun playing with you, and it sucks that you are banned. But this thread will be like the other one, 2 sides flaming at each other. Making it "public" doesn't change the fact that they can do whatever they want and won't care about what people think about that situation. Talking to Goretooth and Devilize in private will have more chances of success to get you closer to an unban than this thread.

Here's a simple analogy.

You were at that party, one guy bumps you by mistake and you call him idiot. He's one of the guys who organized the party and kicks you out of the party. The party is at someone's place, so that "someone" owns the place and trusts his organizer with the task of deciding who should be in or out of his party. Now you're mad at that organizer and scream it out loud in the streets.

What are you expecting to achieve ? Even if the whole community was there to back you up, it's still their servers and they still get to decide who can play or not on it. So fighting them is totally pointless. Man up, apologize for calling him an idiot and saying to him to take pills, walk on your pride and get unbanned. Unless you do so, I doubt anything will be achieved here than more hate.

This aint kindergarten, you're both men (I hope). Act like so

[[ptx]]

Random EU admin power abuser and tyrant reporting for duty.

I will have to disagree with Ecko here. The only solution to this situation would've been an apology from Goretooth and an unban. If the rules on NA servers at least somewhat adhere to common sense (i mean, it is the same across the ocean, right?), then the admin DID make an error here, if the situation really is as described.

I did read through the "die goretooth" thread. Whilst it is ragey and so, it does not change the fact that an error was made. And it certainly does not cross any lines, where one would get punished for intense raging/flaming (the "take a break" ban).

Is Goretooth the owner of the NA(ATS) servers? That is news to me, thought they were owned by... well, someone else. In that case, the ban still shouldn't be copied to other servers...
EVEN IF THAT IS SO - the server is connected to the database AT chadz'S CONSENT. They may decide how things are run around there, but it is still up to chadz to decide whether or not people gain xp and gold on the server. So it is in the owners' best interests to maintain order AND keep the server PUBLIC. Because that is why the server is there, to serve as a PUBLIC NA server. No private server has EVER received consent from chadz to be connected to the DB.

[Lorn]

Is Goretooth the owner of the NA(ATS) servers? That is news to me, thought they were owned by... well, someone else. In that case, the ban still shouldn't be copied to other servers...

All current NA servers are run by ATS.

[Bothersome_Aldryk]

Goretooth is not. It was a case of mistaken identity on the poster's part. Goretooth is simply an influential player in ATS, which is the clan that runs most of the NA servers and is allied with the clan that runs the 100 man.

[Nindur]

Lorne is confused. The 100 NA server is run independetly from the 80 and siege. The 100 server is managed by Hospitallar_Devilize.





Close this thread, the issue was resolved and we lost a good man.

[nuffen]

Ecko, I see that we consider bans different on EU and NA.
On EU-forum we try to give the banned person feedback on why they're banned and when they get unbanned as fast as possible. Why is it important for people to know when they get unbanned? Because then they can accept the punishment. If you answer them, refusing to telling em how long it will keep on, they will asume its a permanent. I dont think Im the only one who assumed Zisas ban was permanent from Goretooths response, so I understand why Zisa started this thread, even if it was not a well-written post. Therefore, I think you should give Zisa a date for unban, so she knows that it will happen and can relax and wait for it.

[Tears of Destiny]

Hmm, I thought it was a permanent ban too.

[[ptx]]

Quite a miscommunication here.

[Ecko]

I don't have a date for is unban because its up to Devilize. However i've spoken to devil and all zisa needed to do was pm him. Now i'm not so sure, i'll have to talk to him again.

In response to Zisa's ban, i don't think the punishment was appropriate and Goretooth has stepped down from being admin when i asked him to mostly because of this situation.

I don't see anyway this can be pursued. I used to tell every single person why they were kicked or banned, the rules are clearly stated on the welcome message so i'm a bit confused why i have to say anything. Most of the NA community will tell you that i am pretty informative when asked, as well that not all admins take actions like goretooth.

It comes down to the fact that the EU and NA community is different. We don't require people to write essays to get unbanned, normally we give out bans frequently but lift them as soon as someone makes a post where the ban is discussed. IF they don't make a post they dont get unbanned.


It was only yesterday that the NA admins found out that holding shift while banning will auto remove the ban in 1 hour, we are often left behind in terms of news and updates over here. So i suppose we do handle things in different ways.